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Forums - General Discussion - How to disprove free will using basic logic

 

Do you agree with me?

Yes 9 12.00%
 
No. You are wrong but I can't prove it 11 14.67%
 
No. You are wrong and I w... 25 33.33%
 
I'm just confused... 10 13.33%
 
See results 20 26.67%
 
Total:75
pezus said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:


Before there was any life, everything happened randomly. Those events eventually (after a very, very long time) shaped what we now call "opinions" through a massive chain-reaction. Free will doesn't shape randomness, randomness shapes free will.

Are you sure it happened randomly?


I have said a few times that I don't actually believe in randomness (but had to include it as it's still possible through quantum mechanics). So, no.



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pezus said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:


I have said a few times that I don't actually believe in randomness (but had to include it as it's still possible through quantum mechanics). So, no.

Exactly. Now, let's all get back to what we were doing. This thread will get us nowhere, as it's impossible to prove or disprove anything concerning free will and such. It's a bit like a discussion about a god's existence.


The whole point though is that it doesn't matter if everything is determined or random since both cases would mean that you don't have a free will, as explained in the OP.



Wow, quite a great thread for pondering. Too bad my brain is fried from my F-CAT today. >_> (Hopefully I'll get back to this thread as it is really interesting, great job on it THE1!) :D



As much as a am enjoying this conversation I can't help but feel bothered by this topic right now, lol.

I am sitting outside right now (I didn't leave work early, it's just that the day was ending, lol), enjoying a Vodka and Redbull and watching and enjoying my daughter playing with the new bubble gun we bought her yesterday while we were out shopping.

I don't if the creator of this topic has kids, but as someone who has one, it is way too hard to sit here and accept that everything that is going on right now and seeing where my daughter is because of what I teach her (As well as the pre-preschool we put her in daily) has little to nothing to do with anything. I find that to be, whether you believe in your physics or whatever, to be absolutely insane.

As someone who believes that nothing is random, how do you think that everything, including what I am doing, drinking and watching my daughter do this very moment, is all part of a predetermined set of actions?


If I were to live a life thinking that none of the actions I perform are of my own doing, I would ponder all the time and just wonder to myself "What life am I living?", because if you truly believe that you have no influence on how your life plays out, then really, how are you to really enjoy any of it?


Realize that some of this may be written due to me having some drinks, so if any of it offends, please understand that is not my intent. My typos, if you find some, are not determined either, they are just a product of the alcohol.



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Euphoria14 said:

As much as a am enjoying this conversation I can't help but feel bothered by this topic right now, lol.

I am sitting outside right now (I didn't leave work early, it's just that the day was ending, lol), enjoying a Vodka and Redbull and watching and enjoying my daughter playing with the new bubble gun we bought her yesterday while we were out shopping.

I don't if the creator of this topic has kids, but as someone who has one, it is way too hard to sit here and accept that everything that is going on right now and seeing where my daughter is because of what I teach her (As well as the pre-preschool we put her in daily) has little to nothing to do with anything. I find that to be, whether you believe in your physics or whatever, to be absolutely insane.

As someone who believes that nothing is random, how do you think that everything, including what I am doing, drinking and watching my daughter do this very moment, is all part of a predetermined set of actions?


If I were to live a life thinking that none of the actions I perform are of my own doing, I would ponder all the time and just wonder to myself "What life am I living?", because if you truly believe that you have no influence on how your life plays out, then really, how are you to really enjoy any of it?


Realize that some of this may be written due to me having some drinks, so if any of it offends, please understand that is not my intent. My typos, if you find some, are not determined either, they are just a product of the alcohol.


No man, you are not offending at all :)

As an 18 year old I must admit that I have no kids yet :D, and I wish all the time that I could forget about how everything is determined. And, ironically, the happier you are, the easier it is to not keep it in mind. So yeah, I guess I envy you on all levels :P

I won't even get started on that last paragraph though



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If everything is determined why cant we see the future?



Well, luckily we can't and never will travel through time, so this 'debate' is rather pointless.



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Azamondeps3 said:
If everything is determined why cant we see the future?


It would be paradoxial. If you predict the future then you'd have to count on being able to predict the future in the future, always leaving a gap at the very end.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Azamondeps3 said:
If everything is determined why cant we see the future?


It would be paradoxial. If you predict the future then you'd have to count on being able to predict the future in the future, always leaving a gap at the very end.

I supose in the end its what we all think as humans we will all believe what we want and how we want that to me is true free will nothing can change that, My random thoughts are just that yes there are processes in my brain that are not random but to each other and human concious its random because we cant and wont figure out whats going on in enough detail if we believe we cant do anything in this world then we wont. 



Euphoria14 said:

As much as a am enjoying this conversation I can't help but feel bothered by this topic right now, lol.

I am sitting outside right now (I didn't leave work early, it's just that the day was ending, lol), enjoying a Vodka and Redbull and watching and enjoying my daughter playing with the new bubble gun we bought her yesterday while we were out shopping.

I don't if the creator of this topic has kids, but as someone who has one, it is way too hard to sit here and accept that everything that is going on right now and seeing where my daughter is because of what I teach her (As well as the pre-preschool we put her in daily) has little to nothing to do with anything. I find that to be, whether you believe in your physics or whatever, to be absolutely insane.

As someone who believes that nothing is random, how do you think that everything, including what I am doing, drinking and watching my daughter do this very moment, is all part of a predetermined set of actions?


If I were to live a life thinking that none of the actions I perform are of my own doing, I would ponder all the time and just wonder to myself "What life am I living?", because if you truly believe that you have no influence on how your life plays out, then really, how are you to really enjoy any of it?


Realize that some of this may be written due to me having some drinks, so if any of it offends, please understand that is not my intent. My typos, if you find some, are not determined either, they are just a product of the alcohol.

I think you did quite well... for being drunk and all.