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Forums - General - Athens or Sparta?

Its how take perspective.

Greeks were never united at that time as a nation they all had state/countries so they keep reffering to themselfs with the names of their state/countries to their fellow Greeks. Like Athenians present themselfs to the Spartans like Athenians not as fellow Greeks.

Same goes for Macedonians.

The Ethinicity of a tribe is equivalent to their cultural heritage like Language,Religion(12gods) tribe characteristics and geographic state.

Macedonians had same religion and language cultural heritage(olympic games) as Athenians,Spartans,Ageans, so they where Greeks. That is a fact from 12000 B.C

I dont say you have political porpose about this nor i take it as an attack i just say your are misinformed.



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AkiraGr said:
Arrian, Plutarch and Herodotus say no such things as Macedonians as a non greek entity i have read them personally. The language is ancient greek you can confirm that from ancient textile urns and manuscripts of the Vergina excavation site as in the tomb of King Philip the Second which was the father of Alexander. Even after the great civil war that Alexander did in Greece to unite all the Greeks to make an expendition war against the Persian empire there was no need to translate anything(lol to claim that is just a joke) because all the orders where given in greek or else Alexander would have an army of translators for just giving to the march of 1.200.000 soldiers that rushed against Persia.

Just Read More Carefully next time if you ever read this great Historians.

I've got Plutarchs "The Age of Alexander" right infront of me. I've got to disagree with your reading of it.

In which... he states on page 212 after Alexanders death

Where he states the greek states form a league against Macedon. He talks about how Demosthenes threw all of his energies into getting the various greek states to attack Macedonia and drive them out of Greece.

How could they be driven out of greece, if Macedonia itself was part of greece?

This is just one of a number of things in the book that point to this. 



ATHENS



Ancient Greece was something like an ancient USA. Many different states (or in this case, cities) inhabited by different people that shared a common sense of unison. They weren't a united country like USA rather a united nation.

Macedonians came to be after the Spartans, Athenians, Thebians, etc and their city-state emerged in Greek colonies, they were thus, Greeks. Athenians reffered to every other civilization (in our sense country) as "barbarians" like the Egyptians. They did not so of the Macedonians; they were just city-states with minimal interaction and things in common. Macedonians, as stated by AkiraGr before me, actually spoke the Greek language, had the same religion, had the same innate love for the sea and trades, etc.

I mean, if they weren't Greeks what could they be? They flourished in a Greek dominated colony and and shared most characteristics with the Greeks. The rest of Greece even fought along side them, something that, at least Athenians would not do with a foreign country.



Good god

I explain to you before
Greeks where not a nation united at that time. After the death of Alexander the two most powerful state/countries after the Pelloponisian war was Athens and Sparta. After the Pelloponisian war Alexander force the Athenian Alliance which was Korinth,Cyclades Island and Rode to join him in the Attach on the Persian ground Sparta was weak after the war and they did not want to participaite in this expedition. So after the death of Alexander there was a matter o power who could get the upper hand in governor of this tremendous empire. So the Athenians with their formel allies formed a new alliance to overthrow from power the state/contry of macedonia and take over control of the empire as an alliance. That was the politics at the time. The same reasson throw Sparta and Athens in a ten year Civil war. We were not united as nation only the Greeks stood together were on the Persian wars against Greece. The vision of Alexander was to unite all the Greek tribes under Macedonia and built an empire. It was a contest of which Greek tribe would have under control the rest. It was a matter o political infuence at that time nothing more. Think of it like North and South civil war on America. American Vs American the same think happend on Greece 10000 years ago. Greek Vs Greek.



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I would be a Spartan because they are more hardcore.



PC Gamer

@Kasz216

AkiraGr is right. There was no "Greece" in ancient times like Egypt and other countries; only seperated country-states under the same nation. Thus they continously fought each other during the centuries.



Yeah, City States. They still recognized that they were all infact Greek.

Something which they did not see the Macedonians as.

Also, the vision of Alexander wasn't to unite the greek tribes under macedonian and build an empire.

It was his vision to build one world empire. Macedonian, Persian, Indian, Greek. It was all the same to him.

Race did not matter to Alexander. As can be seen by his heavy handed attempts to encourage interacial marriages.

Also, i'll say it again. You can't drive people out of "All of greece" if they lived in greece.



routsounmanman said:
@Kasz216

AkiraGr is right. There was no "Greece" in ancient times like Egypt and other countries; only seperated country-states under the same nation. Thus they continously fought each other during the centuries.

 Yeah, duh... but they still saw each other as greeks, and reffered to the whole of their terrirtory as greece.  I'm actually very well researched on this stuff.  Note how I quoted Plutarch from above.



Thats bad translation man.......the man you translates the book you have has no idea of the political system on Greece at that time that why you are so confused.

And yes Alexander had the idea to unite all the know world at the time BUT how would do it if he did not unite all greeks under him.
And again if Macedonians did not seem them selfs as Greeks why the hell did they pick up Greece to unite and not join with the Persians in the first wars and fought against them with all Greeks???

Man this translation hurts Historical Facts to your head with the wrong speed.