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Forums - Gaming Discussion - RIM, Windows Mobile and Symbian marketshare are looking worse according to Nielsen

disolitude on 30 March 2012
KillerMan said:
disolitude said:
famousringo said:
Slimebeast said:

I want it to but the cold hard truth is that Windows Phone will never take on. When people have a choice they won't pick something with Windows in it because Windows just doesn't sound modern and interesting, it sounds old and it's forever associated with hassle and frustration.


I don't think this is the biggest problem with WinPho, but I agree it is a problem. Ballmer thinks Windows is a really powerful brand. Maybe it is in corporate IT, but as you say it comes with a lot of negative baggage in the mind of the consumer.

Ballmer needs to let go of this vision of Windows everywhere. If he'd been running things ten years ago, the Xbox might have been called "Microsoft Windows Home Standard Entertainment Edition."

I disagree. Windows is the Microsoft operating system and a proven brand. No reasons to change it. Windows brand sells more devices per year than iOS, Chrome, Andorid and Mac do combined.

 


Because people don't really have a choice when buying PC. It's is pretty much packed in by retailers in every sold computer.

And why don't they have a choice? Cause Microsoft moneyhatted all the retailers and OEMs?

Seriously though, if it was easy to do a desktop OS and support it like microsoft does, everyone would be doing it and there would be lots of choice. 

Only reason Google can even compete with Microsoft on the mobile and desktop front is because they are piggybacking off advertising revenue. Android, Chrome OS, Google Docs alone would not be able to sustain Google as a business for a week.



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disolitude on 30 March 2012
kitler53 said:
disolitude said:
kitler53 said:
disolitude said:
famousringo said:
...


False. Time to check your preconceptions.

Two years after WIndows 7 was released, Microsoft boasted it had sold nearly 450 million copies of the software. That works out to 616,000 copies a day.

Android announced in December that daily activations had exceeded 700,000.

In Apple's latest financials, they reported selling 57.6 million combined iPhones, iPads and Macs (iPods excluded because I'm too lazy to track down how many are Touch models. It's more than enough to make up for the Macs, I know that). That works out to 636,000 devices per day.

Welcome to the post-PC era. Android and iOS are already bigger than Windows and still growing rapidly. Windows isn't even growing at all. This is why Microsoft is so desperately trying to transform their desktop OS into a tablet OS.

I could argue your math or the fact you are only looking at this moment right now, after Windows 7 has been on the market for almost 3 years and is in its decline. Or I could just post an article explaining my point...http://gizmodo.com/5878036/microsoft-sells-more-windows-7-than-every-mac-ios-and-android-device-combined

I am fully aware of the post PC era and the cash grab behind it btw. I spent most of this week working on monetizing video ads on an iOS app. And guess which OS I had to use to do this...

i think you hit the nail on the head with that one...windows sells but not out of desire.  i have to use windows at work.  at home where i have a choice, i use IOs.  what MS should be worried about is my company just recently decided to allow people to use IOs instead of windows now.  ...look what happened to blackberry once companies started accepting the iphone as an acceptable choice for smartphones. once MS has to stand on merit instead of momentum they are going to loose to apple.  

Does your company work in the finger paint or pinch to zoom industry sector? If so then I understand why they are replacing windows machines with ios devices. You do realize that iOS isnt a self sufficient ecosystem though. You cant make an iOS app with an iOS device.

I actually dont believe you that any company would consider switching windows based machines for iOS devices. There are so many things you cant do in iOS that most busenssea need their employees to do...they would be completely bonkers to do this. Maybe an iPad to compliment a real computer OS, but never a substitute.

General Electric.  

And what your missing is what computers are being used for now in business.  Excel, PowerPoint, and Internet based applications is nearlye 100% of what engineers do and apple is able to do all of those.  and it's not a complete switch, it's now a choice employees are allowed to make.  which btw since you mentioned it, ipads are in the process of being approved and iphone was approved about a year ago.


So what you are saying is that businesses are buying Macs and not Windows machines? Where does iPad/iPhone fit in to this? I don't follow...

You can buy a Mac sure...but you are still using Office, MS Exchange for email and Microsoft cloud solutions and storage...if you want the best support and services for your business at least.



mrstickball on 30 March 2012
famousringo said:
Well, Symbian never did have much presence in NA, so that's hardly a surprise.

RIM falling to 5% is a crushing defeat, but not an unforeseeable one. I still don't think it's too late for RIM to make a comeback. They're still profitable and have a big cash hoard, but they really need a very clever game plan to stay in this. Even if they could hit feature parity with Android and iOS, I don't think it would be enough. They need to become a clearly superior solution to at least some customers to retain a place in this market.

It's disappointing how much WinPho 7 has completely failed to catch on, though. It seems trapped, stealing enough control over the user experience that the carriers favour Android over it, but not attracting consumers enough that the demand forces carriers to promote Windows phones anyway. You could say that a handset has two customers, the carrier and the end user, and other platforms seem to be more attractive to both customers.

This data corroborates an NPD report that put iPhone US marketshare at 43% back in January, and suggests those market gains will be persistent.

I think this is going to be the shape of the US smartphone market for some time to come. I don't expect any big, dramatic shifts will occur for a few years. Android and iPhone will wrestle each other for a handful of percentage points, while the bit players fight to claw their way out of oblivion.

RIM lost $120m last quarter, so their profits are facing a lot of troubles. They're going to continue having problems as they aren't going to be able to invest in new technology vs. the other big players, showing that they're in the sunset of their lifespan. I imagine they're the next Palm.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

disolitude on 30 March 2012
mrstickball said:

RIM lost $120m last quarter, so their profits are facing a lot of troubles. They're going to continue having problems as they aren't going to be able to invest in new technology vs. the other big players, showing that they're in the sunset of their lifespan. I imagine they're the next Palm.

Maybe financially... But they were never as good as Palm. :)



rocketpig on 30 March 2012

Hopefully Microsoft keeps powering ahead with good ideas and interesting ways to implement them while catching up in some of the areas where WinPhone is lagging behind iOS/Android. Nokia-powered Win phones are just starting to trickle out so hopefully by this time next year, we'll see a marked improvement in marketshare for the platform. A third competitor to balance out the Draconian nature of iOS and the mentally-impaired fragmentation of Android is a good thing and MS is set squarely between the two. Hopefully they'll find a customer base.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

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famousringo on 30 March 2012
mrstickball said:

RIM lost $120m last quarter, so their profits are facing a lot of troubles. They're going to continue having problems as they aren't going to be able to invest in new technology vs. the other big players, showing that they're in the sunset of their lifespan. I imagine they're the next Palm.


Yeah, businesses have discovered that going with iOS and/or Android won't kill them, and cheap Androids are quite capable of usurping recent RIM gains in developing countries.

RIM needs a hail mary, but I doubt they're creative or fearless enough to pull one off. Another Canadian tech giant bites the dust. :-/



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

famousringo on 02 April 2012

I just read a little anecdote which really drives home the point that carriers hate Windows Phone:

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/03/disappointed-buyer-returned-lumia-salespeople-avoid-growing-nokia-retail-problem.html

"MTV3 the Finnish TV broadcaster and news service ran a secret test of the Finnish handset retailers in the Helsinki and Tampere regions (the two largest cities of Finland). They sampled two stores from each of the three mobile carriers/operators, and two stores from the two largest independent phone resellers. The MTV3 journalists pretended to be normal consumers and visited ten stores and every time asked to see Nokia Lumia smartphones. In six out of ten stores, the sales people showed only rival phones (Androids mostly by Samsung) when the 'consumer' asked for Nokia Lumia !!! In another two cases the sales person came with several phones rather than just the Lumia and offered immediately a series of handsets to compare. Only in two cases out of ten, did the sales person show a Lumia on first request. Every store had the Lumia on display and in stock and the news story makes the point, that in most stores Lumia had the biggest sales displays at prominent places."


Even in Finland, carriers are undermining the Lumia.

Why do the carriers promote Android over Windows Phone? Because Android gives the carriers power. They can slap their brand on the device, they can preload promotional apps, they can block or allow updates and modify the software as they see fit. Windows Phone takes all that away. The author of that article also points out that carriers hate the competitive threat of Skype, so there's another black mark.

The biggest challenge for Windows Phone is to either convince carriers to stop fighting it, or to get consumers so excited abut the product that the carriers won't matter.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

disolitude on 02 April 2012
famousringo said:
I just read a little anecdote which really drives home the point that carriers hate Windows Phone:

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/03/disappointed-buyer-returned-lumia-salespeople-avoid-growing-nokia-retail-problem.html

MTV3 the Finnish TV broadcaster and news service ran a secret test of the Finnish handset retailers in the Helsinki and Tampere regions (the two largest cities of Finland). They sampled two stores from each of the three mobile carriers/operators, and two stores from the two largest independent phone resellers. The MTV3 journalists pretended to be normal consumers and visited ten stores and every time asked to see Nokia Lumia smartphones. In six out of ten stores, the sales people showed only rival phones (Androids mostly by Samsung) when the 'consumer' asked for Nokia Lumia !!! In another two cases the sales person came with several phones rather than just the Lumia and offered immediately a series of handsets to compare. Only in two cases out of ten, did the sales person show a Lumia on first request. Every store had the Lumia on display and in stock and the news story makes the point, that in most stores Lumia had the biggest sales displays at prominent places.

Even in Finland, carriers are undermining the Lumia.

Why do the carriers promote Android over Windows Phone? Because Android gives the carriers power. They can slap their brand on the device, they can preload promotional apps, they can block or allow updates and modify the software as they see fit. Windows Phone takes all that away. The author of that article also points out that carriers hate the competitive threat of Skype, so there's another black mark.

The biggest challenge for Windows Phone is to either convince carriers to stop fighting it, or to get consumers so excited abut the product that the carriers won't matter.

I agree that some carriers currently pose a challenge for windows phone for the reasons you mentioned (while others are embracing it), however that blog/article is complete croc. It must have been writn by a former Nokia Symbian employee. It's just writen with 100% negativity towards windows phone, pretending like its Ron Paul of smartphones.

Truth is windows phones really don't sell that badly once carriers decide to sell them and consumer satisfaction rates are generally very high.  Lumia 800 has been the best selling device on Finlands largest carrier for 2 months straight now, outselling the iPhone. HTC Radar was a top 3 seller for the holiday season as was Nokia Lumia 710 when it came out. HTC Titan sold very well for AT&T. I've listened to podcasts where AT&T people confirmed that Titan sold really well and above their expectations. It was sold out for most of early December.

In Canada both Rogers and Telus have said they are happy with Nokia Lumia sales so far.

In my opinion, Windows phone performs as well as it should in the current marketplace considering its limitations.

OEMs really haven't given their best designs to the platform(other than Nokia), carriers haven't embraced it fully due to reasons you mentioned above, the ecosystem is still in its infancy, prices have not come down as low as competition and the OS platform lacks some more robust features that the other 2 players already have.

But I do think that there have been some major wins for Microsoft with the Windows Phone in terms of design (specific use cases and integration design is great) and overall ecosystem control and polish that microsoft is currently enforcing is commendable . They just have to keep at it and work on the things they are currently trailing the competition.

Phone contracts are 2 years long and then the cycle repeats...

 

Some links with info I stated above -

http://winphone7news.blogspot.ca/2012/04/nokia-lumia-800-once-again-bestseller.html

http://wmpoweruser.com/dont-call-it-a-come-backhtc-radar-4g-the-3rd-best-seller-on-t-mobile-usa-in-november-and-december-2011/

http://mobilesyrup.com/2012/03/27/canadian-carriers-and-dealers-happy-with-nokia-lumia-sales/



famousringo on 02 April 2012

Yeah, that guy clearly has a chip on his shoulder. I really just wanted the anecdote. I would have skipped straight to the source if the source wasn't in Finnish.

Also, didn't quote tags used to work on this site? I only just realized that my quoted paragraph came through with no formatting whatsoever, and I can't even get it to indent now without indenting non-quote text. Grrrrr. Tired old quotation marks and italics it is.

Edit: Is it just me, or does the Lumia 800 that looks so awesome in colour look really dull in black?



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

disolitude on 02 April 2012
famousringo said:

Yeah, that guy clearly has a chip on his shoulder. I really just wanted the anecdote. I would have skipped straight to the source if the source wasn't in Finnish.

Also, didn't quote tags used to work on this site? I only just realized that my quoted paragraph came through with no formatting whatsoever, and I can't even get it to indent now without indenting non-quote text. Grrrrr. Tired old quotation marks and italics it is.

Edit: Is it just me, or does the Lumia 800 that looks so awesome in colour look really dull in black?


I've only held and seen a black Lumia 800 in person. Have not seen a cyan or any other color. And I have to say that even in black it does stand out in terms of look and design.

I have an iPhone 4 that I use for work purposes and the Lumia 800 is the only phone I've held that feels as premium and as well built as the iPhone. I play with a lot of phones and all other phones I've touched with feel really cheaply made compared to these two.Samsung may be compared to Apple the most but I find Samsung phones to be very cheaply made and put together.

However I've heard the thew HTC One Android phones should join the premium feel club as well...