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Forums - Politics - Do you consider him a terrorist?

Mr Khan said:
Certainly not. America grows terrorists (in greater numbers than the odd Muslim who tries to hook up with Al Qaeda), but they aren't the type of people to join the army or associate with the Federal Government at all. Their incidents usually aren't that high-profile, either, but they're out there, just not in the army.


Eh, I'd argue the Fort Hood shootings were a result of mental illness and not terrorism.

Really there are MUCH better "Is it mental illness or terroism" arguements this this one.

The above Fort Hood case, Jared Laughner, Andy Brevik...


Actual cases of mass murders that involved political reasons brought that were used as a mask for mental illness.



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HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
yes he is. why? because it's my opinion. i'm sure after a while the enemy looks the same as the civilians, so you get to the point where you're not sure who the enemy is, but mental illness is no excuse for murder. if it was just mental illness, he would have stopped at one house.

Again... i'm guessing you have no actual expeirence or schooling in mental illnesses.

no but my grandfather who does agrees with me. srry.

In that case.... he should go back to school... because he wasn't paying much attention.

Cause you know... there are tons of examples on record or people with mental illnesses killing multiple people in multiple locations in a short period of time.

In fact....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer#List_of_spree_killings

hmmmmmmmmmm. it's opinion plan and simple. my grandfather is retired from working with crazy people, and the military so i'm sure he's more qualified then you.

noobie did not ask for an educated guess so back off. i'm not much for debates or discussion these days so this conversation was pointless on your part but thanks for your logical opinion i guess.

i got loads of respect aand have agreed with you in the past, but this isn't a conversation you can win, cause there isn't one to be had.

If that's really your grandfather's opinion then it's a good thing he is retiring.   There is specific evidence to the contrary of such opinion, that has been presented.

Your defense now seems to boil down to "Well he didn't ask for an informed opinion."

Which is like saying if someone asks you "Is the world round" and you say "No the world is flat" then there is no way to prove you wrong, because well... they didn't ask you "give a correct opinion of if the world is round or not."

Get over it. You don't know what really happend, and neither do I, or anyone here. We can come to our own opinions, but you seems to be arguing this subject like you have all the facts and it's a matter of fact what you're saying. If you want to contend that he was mentally ill thats fine, but don't word it like its matter of fact based on the the fact that you suplied a wiki link. 

Edit: I wanna add to this that of course no one wants to believe that this guy got drunk and decided to get some revenge for his country, but it is a possibility.


Could he have?  It's possible.

However that's not the issue.  The issue is that you and he both said "These factors mean he wasn't mentally ill" when in fact... said factors are completely consistant with mental illness and quite honestly point more towards mental illness then the opposite.

I'm not argueing this as if I have all the facts.

I'm argueing it from the point of "I know about mental illnesses."



Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
yes he is. why? because it's my opinion. i'm sure after a while the enemy looks the same as the civilians, so you get to the point where you're not sure who the enemy is, but mental illness is no excuse for murder. if it was just mental illness, he would have stopped at one house.

Again... i'm guessing you have no actual expeirence or schooling in mental illnesses.

no but my grandfather who does agrees with me. srry.

In that case.... he should go back to school... because he wasn't paying much attention.

Cause you know... there are tons of examples on record or people with mental illnesses killing multiple people in multiple locations in a short period of time.

In fact....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer#List_of_spree_killings

hmmmmmmmmmm. it's opinion plan and simple. my grandfather is retired from working with crazy people, and the military so i'm sure he's more qualified then you.

noobie did not ask for an educated guess so back off. i'm not much for debates or discussion these days so this conversation was pointless on your part but thanks for your logical opinion i guess.

i got loads of respect aand have agreed with you in the past, but this isn't a conversation you can win, cause there isn't one to be had.

If that's really your grandfather's opinion then it's a good thing he is retiring.   There is specific evidence to the contrary of such opinion, that has been presented.

Your defense now seems to boil down to "Well he didn't ask for an informed opinion."

Which is like saying if someone asks you "Is the world round" and you say "No the world is flat" then there is no way to prove you wrong, because well... they didn't ask you "give a correct opinion of if the world is round or not."

 

I mean... specific demonstratable facts.  You are right in that there isn't a conversation to be had, but that's only because I am demonstratably correct.  People with mental illnesses do go on spree killings, therefore that it was a spree killing does not rule out mental illness.  It's simple fact.

ok 3 things. 

A. you're right

B. the reall question is did he have any idea of what he was doing when he did it. that will come into question during his trial i'm sure.

C. realistically speaking he's not a terrorist cause from what i can tell, he had no agenda.



Kasz216 said:
HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
yes he is. why? because it's my opinion. i'm sure after a while the enemy looks the same as the civilians, so you get to the point where you're not sure who the enemy is, but mental illness is no excuse for murder. if it was just mental illness, he would have stopped at one house.

Again... i'm guessing you have no actual expeirence or schooling in mental illnesses.

no but my grandfather who does agrees with me. srry.

In that case.... he should go back to school... because he wasn't paying much attention.

Cause you know... there are tons of examples on record or people with mental illnesses killing multiple people in multiple locations in a short period of time.

In fact....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer#List_of_spree_killings

hmmmmmmmmmm. it's opinion plan and simple. my grandfather is retired from working with crazy people, and the military so i'm sure he's more qualified then you.

noobie did not ask for an educated guess so back off. i'm not much for debates or discussion these days so this conversation was pointless on your part but thanks for your logical opinion i guess.

i got loads of respect aand have agreed with you in the past, but this isn't a conversation you can win, cause there isn't one to be had.

If that's really your grandfather's opinion then it's a good thing he is retiring.   There is specific evidence to the contrary of such opinion, that has been presented.

Your defense now seems to boil down to "Well he didn't ask for an informed opinion."

Which is like saying if someone asks you "Is the world round" and you say "No the world is flat" then there is no way to prove you wrong, because well... they didn't ask you "give a correct opinion of if the world is round or not."

Get over it. You don't know what really happend, and neither do I, or anyone here. We can come to our own opinions, but you seems to be arguing this subject like you have all the facts and it's a matter of fact what you're saying. If you want to contend that he was mentally ill thats fine, but don't word it like its matter of fact based on the the fact that you suplied a wiki link. 

Edit: I wanna add to this that of course no one wants to believe that this guy got drunk and decided to get some revenge for his country, but it is a possibility.


Could he have?  It's possible.

However that's not the issue.  The issue is that you and he both said "These factors mean he wasn't mentally ill" when in fact... said factors are completely consistant with mental illness and quite honestly point more towards mental illness then the opposite.

I'm not argueing this as if I have all the facts.

I'm argueing it from the point of "I know about mental illnesses."


I never once said that, what I said is. I basically implied that if it was illness he would have shot at everyone and not been so specific with his fire. Again thats my opinion and I could be wrong. What I do know about mental illness is that no illness is exactly the same so comparing it to previous shootings isn't proof that he was mentally ill.



I was walking down along the street and I heard this voice saying, "Good evening, Mr. Dowd." Well, I turned around and here was this big six-foot rabbit leaning up against a lamp-post. Well, I thought nothing of that because when you've lived in a town as long as I've lived in this one, you get used to the fact that everybody knows your name.

HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
yes he is. why? because it's my opinion. i'm sure after a while the enemy looks the same as the civilians, so you get to the point where you're not sure who the enemy is, but mental illness is no excuse for murder. if it was just mental illness, he would have stopped at one house.

Again... i'm guessing you have no actual expeirence or schooling in mental illnesses.

no but my grandfather who does agrees with me. srry.

In that case.... he should go back to school... because he wasn't paying much attention.

Cause you know... there are tons of examples on record or people with mental illnesses killing multiple people in multiple locations in a short period of time.

In fact....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer#List_of_spree_killings

hmmmmmmmmmm. it's opinion plan and simple. my grandfather is retired from working with crazy people, and the military so i'm sure he's more qualified then you.

noobie did not ask for an educated guess so back off. i'm not much for debates or discussion these days so this conversation was pointless on your part but thanks for your logical opinion i guess.

i got loads of respect aand have agreed with you in the past, but this isn't a conversation you can win, cause there isn't one to be had.

If that's really your grandfather's opinion then it's a good thing he is retiring.   There is specific evidence to the contrary of such opinion, that has been presented.

Your defense now seems to boil down to "Well he didn't ask for an informed opinion."

Which is like saying if someone asks you "Is the world round" and you say "No the world is flat" then there is no way to prove you wrong, because well... they didn't ask you "give a correct opinion of if the world is round or not."

Get over it. You don't know what really happend, and neither do I, or anyone here. We can come to our own opinions, but you seems to be arguing this subject like you have all the facts and it's a matter of fact what you're saying. If you want to contend that he was mentally ill thats fine, but don't word it like its matter of fact based on the the fact that you suplied a wiki link. 

Edit: I wanna add to this that of course no one wants to believe that this guy got drunk and decided to get some revenge for his country, but it is a possibility.


Could he have?  It's possible.

However that's not the issue.  The issue is that you and he both said "These factors mean he wasn't mentally ill" when in fact... said factors are completely consistant with mental illness and quite honestly point more towards mental illness then the opposite.

I'm not argueing this as if I have all the facts.

I'm argueing it from the point of "I know about mental illnesses."


I never once said that, what I said is. I basically implied that if it was illness he would have shot at everyone and not been so specific with his fire. Again thats my opinion and I could be wrong. What I do know about mental illness is that no illness is exactly the same so comparing it to previous shootings isn't proof that he was mentally ill.


And what I said was... your opinion is wrong.  Demonstrably wrong.

That's it.



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Kasz216 said:
HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Kasz216 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
yes he is. why? because it's my opinion. i'm sure after a while the enemy looks the same as the civilians, so you get to the point where you're not sure who the enemy is, but mental illness is no excuse for murder. if it was just mental illness, he would have stopped at one house.

Again... i'm guessing you have no actual expeirence or schooling in mental illnesses.

no but my grandfather who does agrees with me. srry.

In that case.... he should go back to school... because he wasn't paying much attention.

Cause you know... there are tons of examples on record or people with mental illnesses killing multiple people in multiple locations in a short period of time.

In fact....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer#List_of_spree_killings

hmmmmmmmmmm. it's opinion plan and simple. my grandfather is retired from working with crazy people, and the military so i'm sure he's more qualified then you.

noobie did not ask for an educated guess so back off. i'm not much for debates or discussion these days so this conversation was pointless on your part but thanks for your logical opinion i guess.

i got loads of respect aand have agreed with you in the past, but this isn't a conversation you can win, cause there isn't one to be had.

If that's really your grandfather's opinion then it's a good thing he is retiring.   There is specific evidence to the contrary of such opinion, that has been presented.

Your defense now seems to boil down to "Well he didn't ask for an informed opinion."

Which is like saying if someone asks you "Is the world round" and you say "No the world is flat" then there is no way to prove you wrong, because well... they didn't ask you "give a correct opinion of if the world is round or not."

Get over it. You don't know what really happend, and neither do I, or anyone here. We can come to our own opinions, but you seems to be arguing this subject like you have all the facts and it's a matter of fact what you're saying. If you want to contend that he was mentally ill thats fine, but don't word it like its matter of fact based on the the fact that you suplied a wiki link. 

Edit: I wanna add to this that of course no one wants to believe that this guy got drunk and decided to get some revenge for his country, but it is a possibility.


Could he have?  It's possible.

However that's not the issue.  The issue is that you and he both said "These factors mean he wasn't mentally ill" when in fact... said factors are completely consistant with mental illness and quite honestly point more towards mental illness then the opposite.

I'm not argueing this as if I have all the facts.

I'm argueing it from the point of "I know about mental illnesses."


I never once said that, what I said is. I basically implied that if it was illness he would have shot at everyone and not been so specific with his fire. Again thats my opinion and I could be wrong. What I do know about mental illness is that no illness is exactly the same so comparing it to previous shootings isn't proof that he was mentally ill.


And what I said was... your opinion is wrong.  Demonstrably wrong.

That's it.

My opinion might be wrong but it can't be proven so by any link to previous events you can post. On the other hand your opion is wrong, see how that works?



I was walking down along the street and I heard this voice saying, "Good evening, Mr. Dowd." Well, I turned around and here was this big six-foot rabbit leaning up against a lamp-post. Well, I thought nothing of that because when you've lived in a town as long as I've lived in this one, you get used to the fact that everybody knows your name.

PullusPardus said:

Nah, americans can never be terrorists, they're just poor people who need help and care, a little bit of R&R and a guest episode on Oprah to start a new life all over again with his wife.

Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols. 

History first, opinion second. 



HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:


Could he have?  It's possible.

However that's not the issue.  The issue is that you and he both said "These factors mean he wasn't mentally ill" when in fact... said factors are completely consistant with mental illness and quite honestly point more towards mental illness then the opposite.

I'm not argueing this as if I have all the facts.

I'm argueing it from the point of "I know about mental illnesses."


I never once said that, what I said is. I basically implied that if it was illness he would have shot at everyone and not been so specific with his fire. Again thats my opinion and I could be wrong. What I do know about mental illness is that no illness is exactly the same so comparing it to previous shootings isn't proof that he was mentally ill.


And what I said was... your opinion is wrong.  Demonstrably wrong.

That's it.

My opinion might be wrong but it can't be proven so by any link to previous events you can post. On the other hand your opion is wrong, see how that works?


Actually it can.

While no mental illness is EXACTLY a like.  Mental illnesses are similar... hence why there are different kinds and classifications of mental illnesses, like for example parnaoid schitzophrenia.

So yes, previous events can... and do prove your opinion wrong, that he wasn't mentally ill because he chose his targets in a spree killing.  Because most cases of spree killings involvign chosen targets are due to mental illness.

 

It's like saying "I don't think he smokes crack because he smokes marijuna."   Most people who do the second, do the first, so as an opinion... it's wrong.



That's seriously one of the most narrow minded arguments I've ever heard. I'm done with this conversation.



I was walking down along the street and I heard this voice saying, "Good evening, Mr. Dowd." Well, I turned around and here was this big six-foot rabbit leaning up against a lamp-post. Well, I thought nothing of that because when you've lived in a town as long as I've lived in this one, you get used to the fact that everybody knows your name.

HesAPooka said:
That's seriously one of the most narrow minded arguments I've ever heard. I'm done with this conversation.


How?  Multiple opinions can be valid, but not when an opinion has evidence that directly contradicts it.