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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Mario is to blame for Nintendo's financial troubles?

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Is he?

Yes 25 9.96%
 
No 187 74.50%
 
Possibly 18 7.17%
 
See results 20 7.97%
 
Total:250
AstroMaSSi on 17 February 2012

Damn foolish.



AstroMaSSi rules

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ryuzaki57 on 17 February 2012
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
ryuzaki57 said:
This article has it right. The growing domination of Mario games on Nintendo's systems hurts third parties and thus makes it difficult to broaden the audience. 3DS is a perfect example : Mario games are still in the top 10 in every market while smaller releases drop like a rock (when they can manage a decent opening).

But they did try to "broaden the audience" before the Mario games released and look how that went. If anything I'd say that Mario moves hardware which in turn moves third party sales. Not many who buy a 3DS for Mario ignores every third party title (1)

The reason to Mario being in the top 10 is because there are extremely few quality software for the 3DS (2) aside from first party titles, and historically Mario games has always sold really well throughout its consoles cycle. Monster Hunter and Resident Evil: Revelations are two examples of actual non-Nintendo quality titles that even moves hardware.

(1) I just had a look to the global 2011 and 2010 top 100. There 8 Mario games in 2011 and 12 in 2010, the rest is a mix of Nintendo first party titles and dancing games. I didn't see Xenoblade, Monster Hunter, Goldeneye or any core 3rd party game. Actually, as years passed Nintendo actually released more Mario games to sustain profits and it lead to the software drought we know.

(2) That alone could suggest Mario games hinder the release of major software on 3DS. And again I must stress that Revelations dropped like a rock in Europe (see my previous post)



 

Blog -> https://ryuz4ki57inenglish.wordpress.com/

ryuzaki57 on 17 February 2012
NintendoPie said:
ryuzaki57 said:
NintendoPie said:
ryuzaki57 said:
This article has it right. The growing domination of Mario games on Nintendo's systems hurts third parties and thus makes it difficult to broaden the audience. 3DS is a perfect example : Mario games are still in the top 10 in every market while smaller releases drop like a rock (when they can manage a decent opening).

It isn't Mario or Nintendo's fault that the 3rd party titles do not sell well. The 3rd parties need to take it upon themselves that they need to promote their product more. Nintendo has their own things they need to deal with and promoting 3rd party titles is not on that list. Of course Mario genrates a huge chunk of attention but the 3rd party games need to get it together if they want their games to sell. Just look at the Japan SW list; MH and RE are up their in the Top 10 and they are both 3rd party 3DS games. It's because they created a name for themselves and marketed their product.

First off, Nintendo foots the bill for the promotion of many 3rd party games on its systems in the West. Do you think Capcom alone could pay for the enormous ad campaign for Revelations or Monster Hunter (the Wii one)? Ninty also actually publish some games that are from 3rd parties in Japan in the West (Dragon Quest IX, Professor Layton). Without this support to 3rd parties the software drought would be worse still because smaller publishers can't launch campaigns huge enough to rival Nintendo's own promotion of its games, so they can't attrack the audience by themsleves. It shows that 3rd parties doesn't stand a chance against Mario's monopoly. 

Second thing : you mention MH and Revelations. MH is the biggest franchise atm in Japan, it would sell on any system. The important thing to look at is how smaller releases perform. Beyond the Labyrinth, Ace Combat and Spirit Camera bombed, Rythm Thief did ok and only Revelations was really successful. In comparison, Vita's new releases perform more steadily given the limited userbase.

As for Revelations, even if it's doing great in Japan, the US launch (under 100K) is not that good and the game PLUMMETS in Europe (out of the top 40 this week). Meanwhile, Mario games are still on top...

@Bolded I know about that and totally agree, I was even going to include that in my response to you.

For the rest; Nintendo publishing and helping a 3rd party doesn't prove that Mario squashes them. DQ and Professor Layton would have done fine without a publishing from Nintendo (1).  And when you talk about MH you are backing my opinion. I said that 3rd parties need to make a name for themselves to be able to sell (2). MH did just that, that is why they are still selling well. RE didn't have the best opening in America but we can't see if it has legs yet so I would hold off from calling that a bomb in America.

(1) This should interest you :

DQIX western sales US : 500K; Europe : 610K. Excellent sales, but the one of the biggest ad campaign I have ever seen for a JRPG (believe me there were billboards in every train station in Paris, never seen that...)

But now let's see two others that didn't get the ad campaign

DQVI US : 140K; Europe : 50K

DQV US : 140K; Europe : 0K (!)

Speaks volumes doesn't it

Now some Layton sales

even though Ninty DID keep promoting them! Needless to remind you that Nintendo doesn't even schedule the Mask of Miracles in America...

(2) Monster Hunter made itself a name on PSP, this is hardly connected to 3DS. See you next week for Revelation's legs in America!



 

Blog -> https://ryuz4ki57inenglish.wordpress.com/

NintendoPie on 17 February 2012
ryuzaki57 said:
NintendoPie said:
ryuzaki57 said:
NintendoPie said:
ryuzaki57 said:
This article has it right. The growing domination of Mario games on Nintendo's systems hurts third parties and thus makes it difficult to broaden the audience. 3DS is a perfect example : Mario games are still in the top 10 in every market while smaller releases drop like a rock (when they can manage a decent opening).

It isn't Mario or Nintendo's fault that the 3rd party titles do not sell well. The 3rd parties need to take it upon themselves that they need to promote their product more. Nintendo has their own things they need to deal with and promoting 3rd party titles is not on that list. Of course Mario genrates a huge chunk of attention but the 3rd party games need to get it together if they want their games to sell. Just look at the Japan SW list; MH and RE are up their in the Top 10 and they are both 3rd party 3DS games. It's because they created a name for themselves and marketed their product.

First off, Nintendo foots the bill for the promotion of many 3rd party games on its systems in the West. Do you think Capcom alone could pay for the enormous ad campaign for Revelations or Monster Hunter (the Wii one)? Ninty also actually publish some games that are from 3rd parties in Japan in the West (Dragon Quest IX, Professor Layton). Without this support to 3rd parties the software drought would be worse still because smaller publishers can't launch campaigns huge enough to rival Nintendo's own promotion of its games, so they can't attrack the audience by themsleves. It shows that 3rd parties doesn't stand a chance against Mario's monopoly. 

Second thing : you mention MH and Revelations. MH is the biggest franchise atm in Japan, it would sell on any system. The important thing to look at is how smaller releases perform. Beyond the Labyrinth, Ace Combat and Spirit Camera bombed, Rythm Thief did ok and only Revelations was really successful. In comparison, Vita's new releases perform more steadily given the limited userbase.

As for Revelations, even if it's doing great in Japan, the US launch (under 100K) is not that good and the game PLUMMETS in Europe (out of the top 40 this week). Meanwhile, Mario games are still on top...

@Bolded I know about that and totally agree, I was even going to include that in my response to you.

For the rest; Nintendo publishing and helping a 3rd party doesn't prove that Mario squashes them. DQ and Professor Layton would have done fine without a publishing from Nintendo (1).  And when you talk about MH you are backing my opinion. I said that 3rd parties need to make a name for themselves to be able to sell (2). MH did just that, that is why they are still selling well. RE didn't have the best opening in America but we can't see if it has legs yet so I would hold off from calling that a bomb in America.

(1) This should interest you :

DQIX western sales US : 500K; Europe : 610K. Excellent sales, but the one of the biggest ad campaign I have ever seen for a JRPG (believe me there were billboards in every train station in Paris, never seen that...)

But now let's see two others that didn't get the ad campaign

DQVI US : 140K; Europe : 50K

DQV US : 140K; Europe : 0K (!)

Speaks volumes doesn't it

Now some Layton sales

even though Ninty DID keep promoting them! Needless to remind you that Nintendo doesn't even schedule the Mask of Miracles in America...

(2) Monster Hunter made itself a name on PSP, this is hardly connected to 3DS. See you next week for Revelation's legs in America!

1.) I don't think that one was released in Europe. If it was it would have sold at least 50K.

2.) They need to release it! Grrrrr NOA! XD

3.) It doesn't really matter either way it still made its name.



IIIIITHE1IIIII on 17 February 2012
ryuzaki57 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
ryuzaki57 said:
This article has it right. The growing domination of Mario games on Nintendo's systems hurts third parties and thus makes it difficult to broaden the audience. 3DS is a perfect example : Mario games are still in the top 10 in every market while smaller releases drop like a rock (when they can manage a decent opening).

But they did try to "broaden the audience" before the Mario games released and look how that went. If anything I'd say that Mario moves hardware which in turn moves third party sales. Not many who buy a 3DS for Mario ignores every third party title (1)

The reason to Mario being in the top 10 is because there are extremely few quality software for the 3DS (2) aside from first party titles, and historically Mario games has always sold really well throughout its consoles cycle. Monster Hunter and Resident Evil: Revelations are two examples of actual non-Nintendo quality titles that even moves hardware.

(1) I just had a look to the global 2011 and 2010 top 100. There 8 Mario games in 2011 and 12 in 2010, the rest is a mix of Nintendo first party titles and dancing games. I didn't see Xenoblade, Monster Hunter, Goldeneye or any core 3rd party game. Actually, as years passed Nintendo actually released more Mario games to sustain profits and it lead to the software drought we know.

(2) That alone could suggest Mario games hinder the release of major software on 3DS. And again I must stress that Revelations dropped like a rock in Europe (see my previous post)

You do have a point, but currently there's only two Mario games for the 3DS. Without them the 3DS sales would have been extremely low and third parties would have left the system (like Ubisoft did with Assassins Creed, THQ with Saint's Row: Drive By and Capcom with Megaman Legends 3 when Mario wasn't there to help).

Mario has to be there (although only to some extend) to keep the third party support up.



Around the Network
ryuzaki57 on 17 February 2012
NintendoPie said:
ryuzaki57 said:
NintendoPie said:
ryuzaki57 said:
NintendoPie said:
ryuzaki57 said:
This article has it right. The growing domination of Mario games on Nintendo's systems hurts third parties and thus makes it difficult to broaden the audience. 3DS is a perfect example : Mario games are still in the top 10 in every market while smaller releases drop like a rock (when they can manage a decent opening).

It isn't Mario or Nintendo's fault that the 3rd party titles do not sell well. The 3rd parties need to take it upon themselves that they need to promote their product more. Nintendo has their own things they need to deal with and promoting 3rd party titles is not on that list. Of course Mario genrates a huge chunk of attention but the 3rd party games need to get it together if they want their games to sell. Just look at the Japan SW list; MH and RE are up their in the Top 10 and they are both 3rd party 3DS games. It's because they created a name for themselves and marketed their product.

First off, Nintendo foots the bill for the promotion of many 3rd party games on its systems in the West. Do you think Capcom alone could pay for the enormous ad campaign for Revelations or Monster Hunter (the Wii one)? Ninty also actually publish some games that are from 3rd parties in Japan in the West (Dragon Quest IX, Professor Layton). Without this support to 3rd parties the software drought would be worse still because smaller publishers can't launch campaigns huge enough to rival Nintendo's own promotion of its games, so they can't attrack the audience by themsleves. It shows that 3rd parties doesn't stand a chance against Mario's monopoly. 

Second thing : you mention MH and Revelations. MH is the biggest franchise atm in Japan, it would sell on any system. The important thing to look at is how smaller releases perform. Beyond the Labyrinth, Ace Combat and Spirit Camera bombed, Rythm Thief did ok and only Revelations was really successful. In comparison, Vita's new releases perform more steadily given the limited userbase.

As for Revelations, even if it's doing great in Japan, the US launch (under 100K) is not that good and the game PLUMMETS in Europe (out of the top 40 this week). Meanwhile, Mario games are still on top...

@Bolded I know about that and totally agree, I was even going to include that in my response to you.

For the rest; Nintendo publishing and helping a 3rd party doesn't prove that Mario squashes them. DQ and Professor Layton would have done fine without a publishing from Nintendo (1).  And when you talk about MH you are backing my opinion. I said that 3rd parties need to make a name for themselves to be able to sell (2). MH did just that, that is why they are still selling well. RE didn't have the best opening in America but we can't see if it has legs yet so I would hold off from calling that a bomb in America.

(1) This should interest you :

DQIX western sales US : 500K; Europe : 610K. Excellent sales, but the one of the biggest ad campaign I have ever seen for a JRPG (believe me there were billboards in every train station in Paris, never seen that...)

But now let's see two others that didn't get the ad campaign

DQVI US : 140K; Europe : 50K

DQV US : 140K; Europe : 0K (!)

Speaks volumes doesn't it

Now some Layton sales

even though Ninty DID keep promoting them! Needless to remind you that Nintendo doesn't even schedule the Mask of Miracles in America...

(2) Monster Hunter made itself a name on PSP, this is hardly connected to 3DS. See you next week for Revelation's legs in America!

1.) I don't think that one was released in Europe. If it was it would have sold at least 50K.

2.) They need to release it! Grrrrr NOA! XD

3.) It doesn't really matter either way it still made its name.

DQ V did release in Europe : I saw it at my local gamestore.



 

Blog -> https://ryuz4ki57inenglish.wordpress.com/

oniyide on 17 February 2012
kitler53 said:
calling for mario's head lolololz.

now i wouldn't mind seeing mario not milked in soo many franchises. mario party, mario tennis, mario golf, mario sluggers, mario strikers, paper mario, mario kart, dr. mario, mario and sonic, mario vs DK...it's a bit much.

keeping it more main line (3D and 2D platforming) while building up other IP for other franchises (like wii party for instance instead of mario party) would be fine. ...but don't call for his head. he's the mickey mouse of gaming.


this



NintendoPie on 17 February 2012
ryuzaki57 said:
NintendoPie said:
ryuzaki57 said:
NintendoPie said:
ryuzaki57 said:
NintendoPie said:
ryuzaki57 said:
This article has it right. The growing domination of Mario games on Nintendo's systems hurts third parties and thus makes it difficult to broaden the audience. 3DS is a perfect example : Mario games are still in the top 10 in every market while smaller releases drop like a rock (when they can manage a decent opening).

It isn't Mario or Nintendo's fault that the 3rd party titles do not sell well. The 3rd parties need to take it upon themselves that they need to promote their product more. Nintendo has their own things they need to deal with and promoting 3rd party titles is not on that list. Of course Mario genrates a huge chunk of attention but the 3rd party games need to get it together if they want their games to sell. Just look at the Japan SW list; MH and RE are up their in the Top 10 and they are both 3rd party 3DS games. It's because they created a name for themselves and marketed their product.

First off, Nintendo foots the bill for the promotion of many 3rd party games on its systems in the West. Do you think Capcom alone could pay for the enormous ad campaign for Revelations or Monster Hunter (the Wii one)? Ninty also actually publish some games that are from 3rd parties in Japan in the West (Dragon Quest IX, Professor Layton). Without this support to 3rd parties the software drought would be worse still because smaller publishers can't launch campaigns huge enough to rival Nintendo's own promotion of its games, so they can't attrack the audience by themsleves. It shows that 3rd parties doesn't stand a chance against Mario's monopoly. 

Second thing : you mention MH and Revelations. MH is the biggest franchise atm in Japan, it would sell on any system. The important thing to look at is how smaller releases perform. Beyond the Labyrinth, Ace Combat and Spirit Camera bombed, Rythm Thief did ok and only Revelations was really successful. In comparison, Vita's new releases perform more steadily given the limited userbase.

As for Revelations, even if it's doing great in Japan, the US launch (under 100K) is not that good and the game PLUMMETS in Europe (out of the top 40 this week). Meanwhile, Mario games are still on top...

@Bolded I know about that and totally agree, I was even going to include that in my response to you.

For the rest; Nintendo publishing and helping a 3rd party doesn't prove that Mario squashes them. DQ and Professor Layton would have done fine without a publishing from Nintendo (1).  And when you talk about MH you are backing my opinion. I said that 3rd parties need to make a name for themselves to be able to sell (2). MH did just that, that is why they are still selling well. RE didn't have the best opening in America but we can't see if it has legs yet so I would hold off from calling that a bomb in America.

(1) This should interest you :

DQIX western sales US : 500K; Europe : 610K. Excellent sales, but the one of the biggest ad campaign I have ever seen for a JRPG (believe me there were billboards in every train station in Paris, never seen that...)

But now let's see two others that didn't get the ad campaign

DQVI US : 140K; Europe : 50K

DQV US : 140K; Europe : 0K (!)

Speaks volumes doesn't it

Now some Layton sales

even though Ninty DID keep promoting them! Needless to remind you that Nintendo doesn't even schedule the Mask of Miracles in America...

(2) Monster Hunter made itself a name on PSP, this is hardly connected to 3DS. See you next week for Revelation's legs in America!

1.) I don't think that one was released in Europe. If it was it would have sold at least 50K.

2.) They need to release it! Grrrrr NOA! XD

3.) It doesn't really matter either way it still made its name.

DQ V did release in Europe : I saw it at my local gamestore.

Oh it was released. It looks as though no one tracked the sales or it just totally bombed... which is really odd...



ryuzaki57 on 17 February 2012
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
ryuzaki57 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
ryuzaki57 said:
This article has it right. The growing domination of Mario games on Nintendo's systems hurts third parties and thus makes it difficult to broaden the audience. 3DS is a perfect example : Mario games are still in the top 10 in every market while smaller releases drop like a rock (when they can manage a decent opening).

But they did try to "broaden the audience" before the Mario games released and look how that went. If anything I'd say that Mario moves hardware which in turn moves third party sales. Not many who buy a 3DS for Mario ignores every third party title (1)

The reason to Mario being in the top 10 is because there are extremely few quality software for the 3DS (2) aside from first party titles, and historically Mario games has always sold really well throughout its consoles cycle. Monster Hunter and Resident Evil: Revelations are two examples of actual non-Nintendo quality titles that even moves hardware.

(1) I just had a look to the global 2011 and 2010 top 100. There 8 Mario games in 2011 and 12 in 2010, the rest is a mix of Nintendo first party titles and dancing games. I didn't see Xenoblade, Monster Hunter, Goldeneye or any core 3rd party game. Actually, as years passed Nintendo actually released more Mario games to sustain profits and it lead to the software drought we know.

(2) That alone could suggest Mario games hinder the release of major software on 3DS. And again I must stress that Revelations dropped like a rock in Europe (see my previous post)

You do have a point, but currently there's only two Mario games for the 3DS. Without them the 3DS sales would have been extremely low and third parties would have left the system (like Ubisoft did with Assassins Creed, THQ with Saint's Row: Drive By and Capcom with Megaman Legends 3).

Mario has to be there /although only to some extend) to keep the third party support up.

Correct, I see no objection to that. I just wonder if 3DS can maintain that momentum in the long run (and I hope it will 'cause I have one). 



 

Blog -> https://ryuz4ki57inenglish.wordpress.com/

IIIIITHE1IIIII on 17 February 2012
ryuzaki57 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

You do have a point, but currently there's only two Mario games for the 3DS. Without them the 3DS sales would have been extremely low and third parties would have left the system (like Ubisoft did with Assassins Creed, THQ with Saint's Row: Drive By and Capcom with Megaman Legends 3).

Mario has to be there (although only to some extend) to keep the third party support up.

Correct, I see no objection to that. I just wonder if 3DS can maintain that momentum in the long run (and I hope it will 'cause I have one). 

Glad we agree. I too own one so my hopes are up as well.