For me the Forza 3 had the best AI in consoles yet... GT5 Spec II close... Forza 4's AI is bad and sacrificed due to other features in the game (like 16 players in the race).

If we are discussing so as in how they behave. Well that's a different kettle of fish. Ai in almost every game is pretty lame. Even halo. Forza 4 is an attempt at unpredictability. Sometimes so cars will go in to hard to a corner only to smack into the outside wall and roll it. Without even hitting another car. That's realistic. Other times your like wtf? Why did you not give me room?

Equally in gt5 ai will act as if you are not there. In many cases ai cars won't overtake each other.

All in all. Games are much better against real opponents. Ai is weak at best in this day and age. Halo being the best around.

i wonder if "damage" is only the look of the damaged car or the change of the physics after a crash? because this is very important for me and if this is physics as well you can put the whole damage category in physics and then forza has more physics points^^

i mean, i drive a lot with a small-medium damage and for me this is a big part of the games physics.

but i think there are really no big differences between gt5 and forza. it's all just preference. i like forza more but that's just subjective and i couldn't say why i think it's better. only thing i really hate is still the aliasing problem which i did never hate as much as in the forza games. i know other games have it as well but only in forza i see it all the time and i love forza :(  it's better in forza 4 compared to 3 but still...ahhhh...

?

Aside from individual game sales, The Forza series releases 3x as fast as GT, and they all got in the 90's on metacritic. Its pure delusion or biased personal preference to claim what you did. 

ive got forza 4 now, its a pretty good game i prefer gt5 but forza 4 is well worth buying. re: the insim scores it was always going to score better due to having scores for damage, the audio is slicker on forza and although i feel gt5 looks better when on song, forza 4 is more consistant throughout

Of course its personal preference what else did you think it to be? But most of the people I know who have bought Forza 4 said it didn't hold a candle to GT5. And if any Forza had GT type expectations it wouldn't be acheiving these high scores. Rarely do I know any games that have high scores such as these and still don't manage to sell well standalone in most places. Where as GT5 can sell over 7 million within a year with hardly any bundles.

Proof GT5 expectations were severly high:

According to IGN GT5 prologue and GT5 both scored 8.5!! GT5 added over 1000 cars 72 tracks (night, snow, dessert, rain etc.) go karting and an amazing online MP and even then gets the same score as a demo version of the game. The only weakness I found was the damage and the and the 2D trees. Other than that its a perfect racing game. 

I love GT5 but I won't knock Forza, racing fans are good people in my book. Don't get caught up in which is better, just get out there and drive the wheels off and have a good time.

If you have an intelligence level above that of a sponge you'd understand that Mario Kart 64 is the best and most realistic racing game out there and only Mario Kart Wii can be considered its closest competitor. If you disagree I'll wipe the floor with you.

yes yes it's only personla preference but no way forza is as good as gt huhh?

and i did explain ethomaz one time why gt is selling so much it's really not so hard. no racing game is selling huge numbers anymore gt is the only game. the racing genre is just very small compared to others nowadays that's why forza isn't selling millions over millions.

but gt has a brandname almost everyone on this planet knows. most people who bought gt5 for example did never play forza. they could not even say which one is better for them they just buy gt because the name gt is so huge. some of my friends bought gt and they have no clue what forza is lol. they grew up with this and they will always buy it. it's like a mario game. even if a mario galaxy 3 would only get 70% ratings it would sell millions and much more than a ne jum&run game noone ever heard about with a 90% rating and there is gt advertisement for 15 years now here in europe in almost every racing series even without a gt game on the market. dtm/formula 1/wrc look where you want even years after or before a gt release you will see gt advertisement on the cars, drivers overalls or whatever. i did never see a game geting advertisements 3 years before or after release gt is the only game. ok and games like warcraft living from subscriptions.

do you know how much forza advertisement i saw in my life except on youtube? none! i did never see forza advertisement here. maybe there is advertisement in uk or usa but i never saw it here. do you know how much gt advertsiement i saw over the years? i see it now for 15 years almost every week! EVERY week.

every one who's saying one or the other game is much better is just a fanboy i think nothing else is possible. maybe a few percent worse or better but not more. it's just a joke to say that there are so huge differences. there are small differences here and there but overall both games are very similiar.

but to say that forza is crap (which would mean it's totally shit) and then saying gt is almost perfect (except some small things) is just one of the biggest fanboy shits i ever read. i wonder if you really think so or if you just try to say it knowing that it's extremely stupid.

if you would hate both games it would be logical if you wouldn't like this kind of game but what you say is not possible.

you don't have to give me an answer i know it makes no sense to talk with people like you because it's like talking with an soccer fan and saying that his team isn't very different to the team he's hating. most time people who hate one soccer team and love another one hate exactly this tesam which is the closest to their own team. here in germany for example we have schalke and dortmund. they hate each other the most but the fans are more equal to each other than the fans of all other teams.

- If its personal preference you should be saying "it isnt your taste". Saying the series "is crap" when its above 90 just makes you look silly. 

- "if any Forza had GT type expectations it wouldn't be acheiving these high scores". Reviewers review games based on their own quality, not hype. That comment is pure fail propaganda. 

- While Forza sales arent as high as GT5 sales, they still match the sales of most big PS3 exclusive sales. As for GT5....it took over 5 years to make. No wonder it opened so big. 

- As for your last paragraph, I just like to say GT5 online cant hold a candle to Forza online modes......and out of 1000 cars only 200 are current gen. 

Sales is just about the only thing GT has now.