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Forums - Sales - Xbox 360 tops Wii and PS3 for 1st time in yearly global sales

Hyruken on 05 February 2012
pezus said:
Hyruken said:
thismeintiel said:
Hyruken said:
What I have learned from this is that old "wait for shipments that will show who won" saying has now died. It is now "wait three months for more data and we will see who won".
And people once more taking vgc numbers serious like they are official numbers.
I'm with gaf on this one the only numbers you can trust are official release numbers given to shareholders.
And based on those 360 won the year.

No one is questioning whether 360 won in shipments, you can't deny the numbers.  However, the question is who won in sales to consumer.  In my opinion, its pretty obvious that the PS3 did.  All you have to do is remember MS shipped ~1M more units than they normally do in Q1 2011 to make up for short supply in the channel at the end of 2010.  Now if you took that away from this year's shipment numbers the 360 would have shipped more like ~13.9 million instead of 14.9 million.  In other words, if MS hadn't underestimated 360 demand for Dec 2010 and shipped enough that year, the PS3 would have won both shipped AND sold in 2011.


The point is you can look at it and interprut it in multiple ways. For example around E3 MS said they were winning worldwide. They repeated it in their third quarter announcement. But these over-shipping things seem to have only be mentioned now, bit strange don't you think?

People are looking at VGC numbers and taking them as gospel when in reality they are largely just guesses. Look how many times we have been massively out. Most recent the holiday US numbers. They were all pretty much massively over-tracked. There is no way to know who sold what unless you look at the official numbers that are announced by the individual companies. VGC numbers are not official. I mean that as no disrespect to the site. So it really all boils down to who you believe, VGC who were 1m out on the 360 alone in comparison to NPD just in december or the people who actually make them and send them out?

If Sony announced these numbers or Nintendo nobody would be questioning them. How many times have we seen people say wait until shipments as they are the true indicator? Now people are trying to say wait even longer and we will have a better idea. Just sounds like changing the rules to me.

And again no offence to this site but this is why places like gaf and the other game places don't take this place seriously. You can't chop and change the rules as you go along.

In sales they are judged on shipping data. This gives them indication of demand. We can GUESS all we like on here as to what is on shelves and what is sold but there is no way to know. If Sony come out next month with high shipping numbers once again we will be talking about how "shipments are better indicators" again.  You know it.

No. It looks like you're ignoring the actual point. MS never said "We're winning worldwide". They predicted that they would win in sales to consumers for 2011. They were most likely wrong.


I'm ignoring the point? How does that work? Sony and MS both released their shipment numbers. We have those numbers as FACT. You might not like those numbers but they are what they are.

They said "360 is on course to be the top selling console worldwide in 2011".  At e3 2011 they said I quote "“This year, Xbox 360 will go from being the number one selling console in North America to the number one selling console globally."  http://gamasutra.com/view/news/35065/Mattrick_Xbox_360_Will_Be_Worlds_TopSelling_Console_In_2011.php  They even mentioned it at CES when they announced how well the kinect had done if you go and re-watch. They said it all year.

Only you seem to have added the "sales to consumers" thing as I cannot find one shread of evidence to back up that claim?

Based on REAL FACTS DATA 360 outsold PS3 for 2011. You can argue all you like about sold to consumer or whatever but the reality is there is no way to prove/disprove those numbers. You cannot prove that PS3 outsold 360 because the numbers your using to get to that conclusion are not FACT, they are based on this websites tracking. Which as we all know can be off at times. It is guesstimation for a lot of it.

What I don't get with the whole "let's wait for the next quarter" theory is how will that prove/disprove these numbers? Sales of all consoles are declining and in 360's case they had Kinect sales to help boost 360's Quarter sales. To expect the next quarters sales to be on par with that quarter in 2011 is laughable. They are obviously going to be down a lot. And being down doesn't mean they over-shipped for last year....



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Hyruken on 05 February 2012
pezus said:
Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
pezus said:
Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
Horrorfest said:
Quit trolling, Xbox lost in sales not shippings, get over it. It doesn't matter, sales matter.


It was Sony gamers that made "Sold trough"more important instead of Shipments. 

Shipments have always been more important to a company. 

And you do understand that according to MS' lastest financial report that there is a 65.8 mil INSTALL BASE. Which means sold to consumers. 

No, it does not. They reported 65.8m shipped.

Doesnt install base means sold to consumers?

It usually does but then MS released their fiscal report and stated 65.8m shipped.


Interesting because in the release to investors they say

"The Entertainment & Devices Division posted revenue of $4.24 billion, an increase of 15% from the prior period. The Xbox 360 installed base now totals approximately 66 million consoles and 18 million Kinect sensors. Xbox LIVE now has 40 million members worldwide, an increase of 33% from the prior year period."

http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY12/Q2/default.aspx



NotStan on 05 February 2012

Just waiting till the end of this year, hopefully, for comparison's sake we'll see 360 outsell PS3 unit wise, but PS3 outship 360. Then the same old people will change the tune.

Come to think of it, WHERE IS ETHOMAZ!? He's gone incognito.



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

Hyruken on 05 February 2012
pezus said:
Hyruken said:
pezus said:
Hyruken said:
thismeintiel said:
Hyruken said:
What I have learned from this is that old "wait for shipments that will show who won" saying has now died. It is now "wait three months for more data and we will see who won".
And people once more taking vgc numbers serious like they are official numbers.
I'm with gaf on this one the only numbers you can trust are official release numbers given to shareholders.
And based on those 360 won the year.

No one is questioning whether 360 won in shipments, you can't deny the numbers.  However, the question is who won in sales to consumer.  In my opinion, its pretty obvious that the PS3 did.  All you have to do is remember MS shipped ~1M more units than they normally do in Q1 2011 to make up for short supply in the channel at the end of 2010.  Now if you took that away from this year's shipment numbers the 360 would have shipped more like ~13.9 million instead of 14.9 million.  In other words, if MS hadn't underestimated 360 demand for Dec 2010 and shipped enough that year, the PS3 would have won both shipped AND sold in 2011.


The point is you can look at it and interprut it in multiple ways. For example around E3 MS said they were winning worldwide. They repeated it in their third quarter announcement. But these over-shipping things seem to have only be mentioned now, bit strange don't you think?

People are looking at VGC numbers and taking them as gospel when in reality they are largely just guesses. Look how many times we have been massively out. Most recent the holiday US numbers. They were all pretty much massively over-tracked. There is no way to know who sold what unless you look at the official numbers that are announced by the individual companies. VGC numbers are not official. I mean that as no disrespect to the site. So it really all boils down to who you believe, VGC who were 1m out on the 360 alone in comparison to NPD just in december or the people who actually make them and send them out?

If Sony announced these numbers or Nintendo nobody would be questioning them. How many times have we seen people say wait until shipments as they are the true indicator? Now people are trying to say wait even longer and we will have a better idea. Just sounds like changing the rules to me.

And again no offence to this site but this is why places like gaf and the other game places don't take this place seriously. You can't chop and change the rules as you go along.

In sales they are judged on shipping data. This gives them indication of demand. We can GUESS all we like on here as to what is on shelves and what is sold but there is no way to know. If Sony come out next month with high shipping numbers once again we will be talking about how "shipments are better indicators" again.  You know it.

No. It looks like you're ignoring the actual point. MS never said "We're winning worldwide". They predicted that they would win in sales to consumers for 2011. They were most likely wrong.


I'm ignoring the point? How does that work? Sony and MS both released their shipment numbers. We have those numbers as FACT. You might not like those numbers but they are what they are.

They said "360 is on course to be the top selling console worldwide in 2011".  At e3 2011 they said I quote "“This year, Xbox 360 will go from being the number one selling console in North America to the number one selling console globally."  http://gamasutra.com/view/news/35065/Mattrick_Xbox_360_Will_Be_Worlds_TopSelling_Console_In_2011.php  They even mentioned it at CES when they announced how well the kinect had done if you go and re-watch. They said it all year.

Only you seem to have added the "sales to consumers" thing as I cannot find one shread of evidence to back up that claim?

Based on REAL FACTS DATA 360 outsold PS3 for 2011. You can argue all you like about sold to consumer or whatever but the reality is there is no way to prove/disprove those numbers. You cannot prove that PS3 outsold 360 because the numbers your using to get to that conclusion are not FACT, they are based on this websites tracking. Which as we all know can be off at times. It is guesstimation for a lot of it.

What I don't get with the whole "let's wait for the next quarter" theory is how will that prove/disprove these numbers? Sales of all consoles are declining and in 360's case they had Kinect sales to help boost 360's Quarter sales. To expect the next quarters sales to be on par with that quarter in 2011 is laughable. They are obviously going to be down a lot. And being down doesn't mean they over-shipped for last year....

This has all been perfectly explained in here so I won't even bother saying it all over again. And yes, MS were asked if they meant "to consumers" and they said "yes, in people's homes" or something like that. I'd find the link for it but I'm in a hurry right now.

We all know MS outshipped Sony in 2011 but if you actually came up with something convincing that points to a 360 win in sales to consumers in 2011 you'd maybe have a point. Tell me how and why you'd want adjustments to be made because the numbers on VGC make perfect sense given the circumstances. 2.07m 360s on shelves and 1.7m PS3s. What would you say they should have them at?


If you could find the link of them saying that then that would clear it all up wouldn't it. Until then you are making things up. Even in your link there are no official comments from MS. It is an interpretation of their released numbers by people on here.

But okay I will put forward a different point for you then.

Did or did not Sony actually reduce their forecast on their projected PS3 sales in their quarter report? And was that by one million units? On top of this other then MS have any of the other companies actually claimed they were the top selling console for 2011? Because if everything you said was true why didn't Sony come out and say that in what was a pretty damaging quarterly report? Surely by saying something like that would give investors a bit of hope in the Sony brand? Especially considering it's market value has dropped by nearly 50% over the same period last year?

All I see from you is assumption, no actual facts to back up your claims. Shouting it louder doesn't make it right. The FACT Sony predicted less sales for the PS3 would indicate that they themselves over-estimated demand. Could even be they have over-shipped themselves. But that can't possibly be true can it?

As for the adjustments who says 2m on shelves for 360 and 1.7m on shelves for PS3 is right? Where did you get those numbers from? Who is to say there isn't 1.5m 360's on shelves or 2m ps3's on shelves?



thismeintiel on 05 February 2012
Hyruken said:


If you could find the link of them saying that then that would clear it all up wouldn't it. Until then you are making things up. Even in your link there are no official comments from MS. It is an interpretation of their released numbers by people on here.

But okay I will put forward a different point for you then.

Did or did not Sony actually reduce their forecast on their projected PS3 sales in their quarter report? And was that by one million units? On top of this other then MS have any of the other companies actually claimed they were the top selling console for 2011? Because if everything you said was true why didn't Sony come out and say that in what was a pretty damaging quarterly report? Surely by saying something like that would give investors a bit of hope in the Sony brand? Especially considering it's market value has dropped by nearly 50% over the same period last year?

All I see from you is assumption, no actual facts to back up your claims. Shouting it louder doesn't make it right. The FACT Sony predicted less sales for the PS3 would indicate that they themselves over-estimated demand. Could even be they have over-shipped themselves. But that can't possibly be true can it?

As for the adjustments who says 2m on shelves for 360 and 1.7m on shelves for PS3 is right? Where did you get those numbers from? Who is to say there isn't 1.5m 360's on shelves or 2m ps3's on shelves?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-24-microsofts-chris-lewis-interview

Eurogamer: So when you say number one you mean sales?

Chris Lewis: I mean purely install base with consumers. We don't count units unless they're actually out there and installed. This isn't shipments. This isn't revenue. This is install base of consoles.

The discussion that has been rampant for the past couple months has ALWAYS been about sales to consumer, not shipments (the thing this site tracks).  It's only recently when it looks that 360 didn't actually outsell the PS3 has some tried to change the discussion to be about shipments and/or profits.  We're here just to keep things on track.



 

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sales2099 on 05 February 2012

Ok so to make everyone happy.

PS3 sold more to consumers in 2011. But 360 won 2011 for having more shipped.

There :)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

AbbathTheGrim on 05 February 2012

Shipped. Those numbers may be the result of Microsoft opening a lot of brand stores with their stuff, I bet.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=221391&page=1

sales2099 on 05 February 2012
pezus said:
Nsanity said:
thismeintiel said:
Hyruken said:
What I have learned from this is that old "wait for shipments that will show who won" saying has now died. It is now "wait three months for more data and we will see who won".
And people once more taking vgc numbers serious like they are official numbers.
I'm with gaf on this one the only numbers you can trust are official release numbers given to shareholders.
And based on those 360 won the year.

No one is questioning whether 360 won in shipments, you can't deny the numbers.  However, the question is who won in sales to consumer.  In my opinion, its pretty obvious that the PS3 did.  All you have to do is remember MS shipped ~1M more units than they normally do in Q1 2011 to make up for short supply in the channel at the end of 2010.  Now if you took that away from this year's shipment numbers the 360 would have shipped more like ~13.9 million instead of 14.9 million.  In other words, if MS hadn't underestimated 360 demand for Dec 2010 and shipped enough that year, the PS3 would have won both shipped AND sold in 2011.


People want cold hard facts not biased opinions.


That is and never will be possible when talking about retail sales.

Right there! Out of your own mouth.

Retail sales can never be proved. And while great for guesstimates, vgchartz isn't 100% reliable.

Shipped data directly from the corporations themselves are the only real facts anybody can get from all this. That is why shipped is the official metric for determining victory. 

1. It deals in facts, not speculation.

2. Is how one corporation claims victory over another. 

All the sidestepping and rule changing, saying "MS said this at E3", or the "wait for Sonys oct-dec shipped numbers" just suddenly disappear, to people suddenly finding data that MS overshipped in jan-march, speculating that MS HAD to have overshipped in the holiday quarter, while at the same time treating PS3 shipments as gospel and not questioning them. 

This site, just like every other forum....just drips PS3 bias. Vgchartz ones are just better at hiding it. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

NotStan on 06 February 2012
pezus said:
NotStan said:
Just waiting till the end of this year, hopefully, for comparison's sake we'll see 360 outsell PS3 unit wise, but PS3 outship 360. Then the same old people will change the tune.

Come to think of it, WHERE IS ETHOMAZ!? He's gone incognito.

You'd like to think that of course. You somehow manage to turn everything into personal matters. I'm sure ethomaz is just busy or couldn't care less that the same old people are in here bitching in and out because they don't accept VGC numbers. I'm pretty sure some of you have consistently attacked him for stating "undertracked" in the past yet here you are doing exactly the same only with different words.

Lol you seem to take everything so personally lately, seem a bit butthurt.

I meant for comparison's sake, seeing as some of the 360 guys that I remember saying in the past that shipment don't matter are now saying that they do, same for Sony guys, ethomaz has always been adamant that shipments matter the most, and going by the latest results, I find it very ironic indeed that he has gone incognito.

I always said he's being stupid for calling undertracked on every fucking worldwide post, and I maintain my stance, point me to a post where I've said that it's undertracked then fair enough, I just said that there is a marginal error that MAY occur, I didn't outright say "These numbers are undertracked, this site's tracking sucks ass" like he did in some cases.

You should really see someone about that case of butthurt, it's been really bad lately, your posting is steadily degrading, seeing as you know as well as I do, if anyone loves numbers more on this site than ioi and source it's ethomaz, and he also loves to manipulate them (Taking out what he doesn't want to see).



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

SOLIDSNAKE08 on 06 February 2012

lmao. aint been on vg for like 2 weeks, come back and people still talking about the same shit! we've seen all the sale charts now. official sales, shipments and vgchartz own numbers. 360 dominated US, ps3 dominated europe nearly all year but wii outsold it last last few weeks of 2011 in europe, ps3 took japan this year aswell. so overall worldwide hardware SALES, ps3 top followed by 360 then wii. microsoft did ship alot more though as they expected a bigger december.