I have seen no hype for this device in north america.

Thanks NintendoPie, also when I say DOA I am refering to Japanese release as well as predictions for world markets. Sony will need a miracle to see Nintendo's 250$ 3DS level of success. I would say it is possible for Vita to survive without a cut (not likely in Japan) but it would be very surprising. I suspect Sony and its third party supporters are just waiting to see how Vita does after a month in Europe and America. If it can succeed in selling as well as 3DS did during its launch it is possible that it could survive. Either way Sony is going to take a financial hit from its launch.

Your Welcome! Did it work?

I think there's a bigger market for the 3DS.

The simple truth of the matter is, the 3DS will remain the portable platform of choice for families with small children. And while I see more and more small children playing with iPads and iPhones, it's pretty reasonable to assume they don't actually belong to these children but their parents.

About the only trend that will trump the 3DS will be if the general public no longer sees value in $20-40 portable games and instead continues to support the sub $10 games that make up the majority of those available on iOS and Android devices.

Additionally, as much as some people like to think that price doesn't matter; it does. A $250 3DS compared to a $250 PSV was a bad comparison. Nintendo was wise to drop price and by so much well in advance of the PSV debut. Given the difference in price to produce ($100 vs $200-300), Nintendo has much more leeway when it comes to pricing.

SCE really hasn't done much to market the PSV in North America either. I'm of the notion that your average person probably thinks it's another version of the PSP.

I see what you did there Burns :D :D

So, you agree with me? :) LBP = touchscreen flagship. Other genre flagships, check. Indie games, check! And then it's a momentum game while more software content appears. I think there's value for consumers Rol.

If Sony managed to sell 60 Million PS3s, there must be a market somewheres, even with those few flaships. And that's with MS competition. Granted this is  a handheld, but what I'm trying to say is that the appeal is there with UC imho. It's not a niche title, it's really a blockbuster, a bit like a big upcoming hollywood movie. That's litterally how I perceive it, until I get my hands on the game. But imagine if I haven't played UC and I feel this way about it, what that means about their marketing, their packaging, the screens. They are attactive, portable no portable! To me at least, and as it seems to a few others on here who weren't interested in the PSP either.

Ok @ UMD... it was a lesson learnt, that's all I was saying. Flash cartridges are more in line with what Ninty is doing, less scary to regular consumers, and probably less expensive to manufacture. I consider it a lesson learnt, for what it's worth.

@Alternate controls. We don't know, but if M.U.G.E.N.'s thread is any indicator, many games are making use of these control features.

@tougher-times. Granted PS brand has lost its luster, but that doesn't reduce my lessons learnt argument. I fully agree with this though, so we're on the same page here.

Peace Walker does have appealing graphics for a PSP game, but they were ultimately PSP graphics. In general folks were not too impressed with PSP graphics, so how could they expect Peace Walker to be any different? Uncharted has staggeringly beautiful visuals, and is a flagship 1st party game. I mentioned this before, I am not a fan of PSP graphics. The Vita is very different. Sports well-aging visuals (better than 3DS graphics, and those are fine 1 gen behind), a very nice screen, HD, OLED, with a larger surface. It destroys the PSP in the graphics compartment, even relative to gen. This is why I think a game like Metal Grea PW didn't fly. Even if it had good graphics for its platform, the platform itself wasn't appealing. It's shallow, but it's true. I don't know, to me there were just too many jaggies in the PSP graphics. Mind you I mostly look at screens to see if I'm interested. But you can be sure those Golden Abyss screen yell "I'm sexy" from every angle of 'em. I'm the same person, so I'm telling you the graphics changed, not me. They are much more appealing to me than the PSP graphics were at their respective time.

You can't mess around with consumer confidence. Once they have experiences on your system they don't like, it's bye bye. The PSP had a failure of a launch, software-wise. They launched cheap software with little appeal. I don't see the same happening for the Vita, not here in the West at least.

Better late than never is how I see it. It is bad timing, but it's better than not doing it. Then you would have said Sony doesn't learn from the past. ;)

Fair enough.

Not superior, but in terms of game depth, inferior? We don't know. Yes it's a side-story, but it can still be AAA. Graphically? Not in a dramatic way inferior to what is being offered in UC today, and the next gen will not provide a substantial boost imho. And remember, it's on a small screen. It just looks nicer in general. (Sorry, I love portables :D)

Probably people who thought that the PS3 would be discontinued. But you're right, anything is possible. Who would have thought the ps3 would be the winner of any year after the disastrous 2007.

Like most people said, it's highly unlikely that the psv will do as well as the psp or even remotely close to 3ds. The psp had a lot of hype which the psv lacks, especially because of the last couple of years that the psp has been dead. I'm still buying UMDs and will buy a psv really soon, but I see psv doing terrible despite its awesomeness (we live in a world where Jersey Shore is a massive hit, while Fringe, Firefly and Community get cancelled/are on hiatus etc). Though as long as it's profitable for Sony and gets good sofware, I'll be happy.

I retract the standalone indie games segment.

@Selling-point. I see LBP as a game with selling power that appeals to the touch demographic, and to the younger fellas, but fair let's just agree to disagree for now. I address LBP selling power a bit lower.

@ Italics. Fair enough. In theory you're very right. I for one am excited to play it on the handheld, but maybe that's just me.

@60Mil sales. So, how did the PSP end up selling 72Mil global then? On brand name alone?

I didn't say they were graphics whores. But some gamers that are not MGS fans per se but would have played it on a console with a better ecosystem, would have probably picked it up. That's all I'm saying. I'm not a RE fan per se, but I would maybe pick RE:R up for 3DS. That's where the userbase argument matters.

The PSP had a much better life in Japan than here, that's probably why a game MGS: PW sold well there relative to here. But say, hypothetically, the Vita were to gain traction here in the west, would the same not apply? Granted, PW had coop features, and that's a huge selling point for Japan. But that aside, don't you think it has much more to do with having a good install base than just "Japan is more serious about portable gaming"? If so, how come the DS did so well here relative to Japan? Your argument would apply to the DS then. So for this point I partially disagree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Portable_launch#North_American_launch_games

You're mostly right, but wouldn't that be like saying the 3DS lineup is like the DS lineup, only without Super Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart?

Also, it's not just Uncharted, it's also LBP. It managed to sell 4.81 Mil lifetime, not too far from UC 2's 5.5 Mil! Flagships like these are much more important than you make them out to be, Rol. You can't just brush them off by the back of the hand.

EDIT: I actually took a look at the official launch title list. It's not too shabby, and mostly much better than the PSP's original launch list.

I think many gamers were let down by the PSP, and it had bad word of mouth. As much as the PS had brandpower, some of Sony's marketing wasn't fitting for certain consumers and audiences. Too dark, not casual enough. Now with UC and LBP, their image is changing. They are much more à propos. So saying these are different times is a double-edged sword. Yes Sony lost brand strength since then, but they also improved their image in general. I believe the Vita will have good word of mouth and stronger appeal despite being the underdog (understood). This will lead to slower sales at first, but I see Vita ramping up as of year two and gain strength in the following years, much like the HD twins did this gen. Difference is, there is no MS this time to leech sales. We may be very surprised Rol.

Also don't forget that Vita games will be priced much lesser than their console counterparts, if PSP is any indicator of that. It could be reason to choose the Vita offerings rather than the PS4 720 offerings. Plus, if Nintendo wins next gen, that will definitely help boost Vita sales, as one would not want to buy a poorly supported console (possibly the PS4) if they can get games cheaper and relatively just as good on the Vita. By that time games should be Vita 2nd gen.

Very nice post by the way. I thoroughly enjoy debating with you.

So what page is that?

1) Agreed. And a pricecut is also one of the reasons why I think it'll take a year or two for things to really ramp up for the Vita.

2a) Understood.

2b) In the top 10 Western games (America, but it's similar in Europe), we have 4 Sony Games (Daxter, GOW, R&C and SOCOM), 1 LucasArts, Crisis Core, 2 GTA's, another take-two (Midnight club) and Need for speed. Then you need to consider the image factor, more than sales. It is a good image to portray UC and LBP as your flagships. They give a better image to the console than say GTA in the eyes of the less violence-oriented crowd (this would include the casuals and kids).

3a) Then why did Crisis Core fair similar in America than in Japan, relative to other FF entries?

I disagree here. There was some cherry-picking here I feel. Also, Metal Gear PW had coop support (big in Japan), and probably got poor advertising here. idk.

3b) I agree, and I think if Vita does a better job at marketing and providing a compelling gaming experience on the Vita, the situation will improve in the West. The non-PSP fans were just not interested in the West, there was no mainstream here for that console, as console sales indicate. They all reach max 3Mil.

4) To explain. You said the Vita launch lineup is like the PSP's, plus UC. I mentioned I agreed, but countered by saying that that would be like saying the 3DS launch window was like the DS's, only with SM3DLand. It's not correct to say "only", since these flagships make a significant impact. Add to this that I updated my post with the actual Vita launch list, and it looks leaps and bounds more appealing than the PSP launch list. Take a quick look when you have a sec.

5) Fair for LBP = R&C at time of PSP in terms of sales. BUT, the demographics to which it appeals are different, and that's important too. But within the context of the argument, I'll concede with you.

6) Was that true during the PS2 gen? Nope. So the Vita being alone could help benefit more than what 360 benefitted to PS3, bottom line. I'm ok with everything else.

7a) Though HD gamers like good graphics, they aren't graphics whores. I think many would be content with the Vita long term, as some of us are content with the 3DS. Also, the Vita may capture a less graphics-interested audience in likes of the 3DS audience. If so, they would be in good hands. The launch offerings are interesting for said demographics. UC, Little Deviants, Army Corps of Hell (like Pikmin), Gravity Rush, MJ: The Experience, Rayman Origins, Shinobi, LEGO Harry Potter. Just try to look at the alternatives as possibilities. Otherwise we'll be surprised. I know you're confident, because you have more knowledge in general. But you can be wrong too. Keep in mind.

7b) If Nintendo wins Wii U next gen, even if there are multiplats, why would ppl waste money on a home console when they can get good quality content on the more affordable portable? Even if graphics aren't next gen, as I said in 7), not all are graphics whores.