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Forums - Gaming - Paradox: Next console generation will probably be "the last generation"

happydolphin on 19 January 2012
theprof00 said:

Seece, while being a bit of a failure by calling them "true gamers", is referring to "traditional core gamers", a term I coined to end the controversy of what is a "real gamer" since arguments about the games and isntall base never progressed past hurt feelings at being called "casual". Additionally, it solves the problem brought up with the elitest term "sales core", in which some smartass comes in and says that core refers to the people using the system at the moment, which was brought up because "core" to gamers, is almost a genre.

Traditional core gamers are ones who would buy the popular games on a system X many years ago, during the late 80's, and 90s. This would roughly reflect the well known games from NES, SNES, Genesis, 64, ps1.

 

In the sense of the traditional core, if all the numbers are completely accurate (which I've never been convinced of), MS has taken or "grown" nearly 40m traditional gamers.

Nope, the definitions were fine,  I also meant traditional core gamers. By my barometers (Smash and Halo), I stand by my point..



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EncodedNybble on 19 January 2012
happydolphin said:

Nope, the definitions were fine,  I also meant traditional core gamers. By my barometers (Smash and Halo), I stand by my point..

Your point being that an increase of 70 million systems accounted for 3 million more "core" gamers for the Wii while an increase of 35 million systems accounted for 3 million more "core" gamers for the 360 (though I think that number is way more explained by my previous post), thus meaning that the pecentage of "core" gamers with a 360 is at least twice that of "core" gamers with a Wii?



happydolphin on 19 January 2012
EncodedNybble said:
happydolphin said:

Nope, the definitions were fine,  I also meant traditional core gamers. By my barometers (Smash and Halo), I stand by my point..

Your point being that an increase of 70 million systems accounted for 3 million more "core" gamers for the Wii while an increase of 35 million systems accounted for 3 million more "core" gamers for the 360 (though I think that number is way more explained by my previous post), thus meaning that the pecentage of "core" gamers with a 360 is at least twice that of "core" gamers with a Wii?

My point is:

The relative percentage of casual/core increase ratio is entirely irrelevant to my original issue with Seece's very first post.

A decrease in traditional core gamer on Nintendo's consoles would've been relevant, but that didn't happen. :S

What would also seem relevant is a drastic increase in MS traditional core gamers compared to Nintendo traditional core gamers, but that hasn't happened either...

Hence, by his own logic, Seece would be right to say:

"Majority of gamers arnt even interested in Microsoft home consoles .."

In other words, his post of

"Majority of gamers arnt even interested in Nintendo home consoles .."

was not only useless, but it was misleading.



theprof00 on 19 January 2012

Maybe you'd enjoy reading this thread.
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=77267&page=1

The problem with judging the HD consoles based on traditional core gamer adoption rates, is that 360 and ps3 are LITTERED with traditionally core games of a wide variety of different genres. Third person shooters, platformers, first person shooters, stealth games, arcade-type games, side scrollers (Raiden, etc), story games, RPGs have very different audiences. While there will always be some overlap, these games tend to display a cumulative core base. That is, each genre/franchise makes up a piece of the pie accounting for some overlap.

So, as opposed to using Brawl as a metric, using Halo as a metric is really only looking at a slice of what would be called the "traditional core".



Mr Khan on 19 January 2012
Seece said:
happydolphin said:
Seece said:

Which is exactly the point I'm making.

You realize the same can be said about the HD consoles? What were the last sales of the main Halo games? I'll help: Reach 8.80m. Halo 3: 11.45m.

It's not so far away from Brawl's 10.89m. So, we can see that since both games are a good indicator of the true gamers (lots of casuals buy COD and Kinect they are not good barometers), and since both have very similar sales, the proper assumption or oracle is to say that both the Nintendo and Microsoft gamer bases are quite similar.

Nuff said?

No, not even close. Halo has a lot of competition, Nintendo first party games get a free ride nearly every gen.

Nobody competes with them because no-one is able to. It's easy to at least try to replicate Halo's appeal (though few enough have succeeded in the attempt). One also has to consider the concept that if people aren't interested in a game, they simply do not buy it, so that game's sales are usually determined on their own merits and not on the presence or absence of direct competitors. Many Nintendo games stand alone in their appeal, certainly, but that does not account for the sales of those series that sell well



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Seece on 19 January 2012
Mr Khan said:
Seece said:
happydolphin said:
Seece said:

Which is exactly the point I'm making.

You realize the same can be said about the HD consoles? What were the last sales of the main Halo games? I'll help: Reach 8.80m. Halo 3: 11.45m.

It's not so far away from Brawl's 10.89m. So, we can see that since both games are a good indicator of the true gamers (lots of casuals buy COD and Kinect they are not good barometers), and since both have very similar sales, the proper assumption or oracle is to say that both the Nintendo and Microsoft gamer bases are quite similar.

Nuff said?

No, not even close. Halo has a lot of competition, Nintendo first party games get a free ride nearly every gen.

Nobody competes with them because no-one is able to. It's easy to at least try to replicate Halo's appeal (though few enough have succeeded in the attempt). One also has to consider the concept that if people aren't interested in a game, they simply do not buy it, so that game's sales are usually determined on their own merits and not on the presence or absence of direct competitors. Many Nintendo games stand alone in their appeal, certainly, but that does not account for the sales of those series that sell well

Look above, prof laid it out nicely for you.

But I'm surprised Nintendo fans here even debate this, i thought they would readily admit this themselves. Look at the Wii's library compared to the gamecubes ...

I imagin a lot of those gamecube owners are very unhappy this gen, and I doubt the Wii pulled many core gamers from the PS2 and Xbox crowd.



 

bazmeistergen on 19 January 2012
happydolphin said:
Seece said:
happydolphin said:
Seece said:
happydolphin said:
Seece said:
happydolphin said:
Seece said:

Given I used facts and not opinions on forums to come to my conclusions, no you didn't fix it your broke it.

Way back when, Nintendo home console did have all the gamers flock to them, it's been a looong long time since those days though.

Indeed, your numbers prove my point. There are many posers that buy video games. Thanks Seece! ;)

posers? Do you mean posters? Why are you going on about posters. And no the sales do not prove your point that Nintendo has a core home console userbase, actually the opposite, that most if not a huge chunk of the Wii's userbase is casual and buys dance/fitness games. Just look at what charts for the Wii these last 2 years.

You do realize 10Million people bought Super Smash bros Brawl, do you not? Grammar nazis don't interest me... You and Koweniki fit that category very well. I don't lack education, you both lack manners. :P

I'm not a grammar nazi I just didn't know what you meant.

And only a mere 3m more than Melee on Gamecube? It's not as if SSMB doesn't look friendly to casuals either.

Now, I won't say you're using mere opinions, because I don't stoop to that level. I understand what you're saying, that casuals may like SSBB, but it is a known thing in the community that Brawl is a game more geared to the core gamer, especially the one that likes Nintendo games. It's an excellent fighter, very fun, high quality and highly competitive. By the same measure it can be said that Starcraft is more of a game for gamers than for casuals. More evidence is seen in the fan-made smashboards forum/community for super smash Melee/Brawl gaming, discussion and tourneys.

With that said, we can see that with only 3m more than Melee, the proof is that total HW sales in a gen don't prove total number of real gamers on a platform, since the Cube and Wii core base seem to be very similar, if numbers are any indicator (8M to 10M).

Which is exactly the point I'm making.

You realize the same can be said about the HD consoles? What were the last sales of the main Halo games? I'll help: Reach 8.80m. Halo 3: 11.45m.

It's not so far away from Brawl's 10.89m. So, we can see that since both games are a good indicator of the true gamers (lots of casuals buy COD and Kinect they are not good barometers), and since both have very similar sales, the proper assumption or oracle is to say that both the Nintendo and Microsoft gamer bases are quite similar.

Nuff said?

I was going to say the same thing. The potential definition of 'true gamer' is so wide that all perspectives on this are open to challenge. I mean many people just play CoD or FIFA (or both). Are these gamers? Or teenagers/students? The truth is no-one really knows and perhaps the core bases on each machine are similar...



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

bazmeistergen on 19 January 2012
theprof00 said:
Maybe you'd enjoy reading this thread.
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=77267&page=1

The problem with judging the HD consoles based on traditional core gamer adoption rates, is that 360 and ps3 are LITTERED with traditionally core games of a wide variety of different genres. Third person shooters, platformers, first person shooters, stealth games, arcade-type games, side scrollers (Raiden, etc), story games, RPGs have very different audiences. While there will always be some overlap, these games tend to display a cumulative core base. That is, each genre/franchise makes up a piece of the pie accounting for some overlap.

So, as opposed to using Brawl as a metric, using Halo as a metric is really only looking at a slice of what would be called the "traditional core".

There is nothing more traditional core gamer than Mario Bros 2d and that piddles over the 10 million figure being thrown about.

You could say the same for other Nintendo franchises: Zelda, Metroid and so on. Are they all purchased by the very same people that buy Galaxy, Brawl, Mario Wii? Maybe, but no one actually knows.



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

Mr Khan on 19 January 2012
Seece said:
Mr Khan said:
Seece said:

No, not even close. Halo has a lot of competition, Nintendo first party games get a free ride nearly every gen.

Nobody competes with them because no-one is able to. It's easy to at least try to replicate Halo's appeal (though few enough have succeeded in the attempt). One also has to consider the concept that if people aren't interested in a game, they simply do not buy it, so that game's sales are usually determined on their own merits and not on the presence or absence of direct competitors. Many Nintendo games stand alone in their appeal, certainly, but that does not account for the sales of those series that sell well

Look above, prof laid it out nicely for you.

But I'm surprised Nintendo fans here even debate this, i thought they would readily admit this themselves. Look at the Wii's library compared to the gamecubes ...

I imagin a lot of those gamecube owners are very unhappy this gen, and I doubt the Wii pulled many core gamers from the PS2 and Xbox crowd.

We reject the fallacious notion of core gamers, a notion that was entirely fabricated in order to perpetuate anti-Wii FUD

Wii pulled over people interested in playing console games, and not PC expatriates



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Seece on 19 January 2012
Mr Khan said:
Seece said:
Mr Khan said:
Seece said:
 

No, not even close. Halo has a lot of competition, Nintendo first party games get a free ride nearly every gen.

Nobody competes with them because no-one is able to. It's easy to at least try to replicate Halo's appeal (though few enough have succeeded in the attempt). One also has to consider the concept that if people aren't interested in a game, they simply do not buy it, so that game's sales are usually determined on their own merits and not on the presence or absence of direct competitors. Many Nintendo games stand alone in their appeal, certainly, but that does not account for the sales of those series that sell well

Look above, prof laid it out nicely for you.

But I'm surprised Nintendo fans here even debate this, i thought they would readily admit this themselves. Look at the Wii's library compared to the gamecubes ...

I imagin a lot of those gamecube owners are very unhappy this gen, and I doubt the Wii pulled many core gamers from the PS2 and Xbox crowd.

We reject the fallacious notion of core gamers, a notion that was entirely fabricated in order to perpetuate anti-Wii FUD

Wii pulled over people interested in playing console games, and not PC expatriates

So that's your retort? Right .. might as well have just said 'you're right Seece'.