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Forums - Politics Discussion - Ron Paul Racism blame debunked

scat398 on 05 January 2012
badgenome said:
Kasz216 said:
badgenome said:
It's pretty hilarious how hawking virulently racist newsletters is A-OK if you're internet popular. And if you're not internet popular, then being a white conservative means you're presumed racist until it can be proven otherwise (which, of course, it can't be).


It's no different then the rampantly sexism employed against the people Julian Assange raped, and against Hilarly Clinton by various people backing Barak Obama.  That was all tolerated as well. 

In general, all you need to do to get a pass is to NOT be a conservative.

I think popularity trumps whether or not someone is a conservative. Although it's true that conservatives tend not to be popular on the interwebs, Paul is in some regards the most conservative candidate. And not just in that oh-so-hip "fiscally conservative/socially liberal" way, at least if you believe the people who've worked for him who say he absolutely hates gays (after seeing Bruno, I can believe it). But he's "cool" for whatever reason, so who gives a shit about his dealings with racists? Especially when Rick Santorum wears a sweater vest and is so NOT cool!

The dynamic was similar with Obama and Clinton. I don't know that Clintons are more conservative than Obama. I'd say they're merely more politically pragmatic. All that mattered was that Obama was a fucking dreamboat, and Hillary was old news compared to that hot shit. So when it came out that Obama had spent 20 years listening to a horrendous racist like Jeremiah Wright, everyone ultimately decided it didn't matter because Obama was just sooooooooo kewl. Then when Obama's surrogates tarred Hillary, Geraldine Ferraro, and even the former "first black president" Bill as racists, it actually kind of stuck. Thus proving yet again that most people are unprincipled dickholes, and if they hate someone, that person can do no right, and if they love someone, that person can do no wrong in their eyes.

Hates gays?  The only Republican cadidate, as far as I know, that has voted for same sex marriage, hate's gays?  Don't get me wrong Ron Paul gets squirmy around gays, I don't know many 70+ year olds that don't (hell I'll admit it, I get a little queezey when I see two dudes making out) but I'm an adult and I know the reaction I have is simply because it doesn't mirror my self image, similiar to to what we were just talking about with Racisim.In the end though RP still shows himself to be above his own personal feelings and votes the concepts he believes in, which includes and individuals right to marry without government intervention.

But when you have a guy take his pants off in front of you in the middle of what was supposed to be a press interview and I'm sorry but Ron Paul was the only candidate that actaully did the rigth thing, he got up and he walked out so I don't see how that video says RP hates gay people.



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badgenome on 05 January 2012
scat398 said:
badgenome said:
Kasz216 said:
badgenome said:
It's pretty hilarious how hawking virulently racist newsletters is A-OK if you're internet popular. And if you're not internet popular, then being a white conservative means you're presumed racist until it can be proven otherwise (which, of course, it can't be).


It's no different then the rampantly sexism employed against the people Julian Assange raped, and against Hilarly Clinton by various people backing Barak Obama.  That was all tolerated as well. 

In general, all you need to do to get a pass is to NOT be a conservative.

I think popularity trumps whether or not someone is a conservative. Although it's true that conservatives tend not to be popular on the interwebs, Paul is in some regards the most conservative candidate. And not just in that oh-so-hip "fiscally conservative/socially liberal" way, at least if you believe the people who've worked for him who say he absolutely hates gays (after seeing Bruno, I can believe it). But he's "cool" for whatever reason, so who gives a shit about his dealings with racists? Especially when Rick Santorum wears a sweater vest and is so NOT cool!

The dynamic was similar with Obama and Clinton. I don't know that Clintons are more conservative than Obama. I'd say they're merely more politically pragmatic. All that mattered was that Obama was a fucking dreamboat, and Hillary was old news compared to that hot shit. So when it came out that Obama had spent 20 years listening to a horrendous racist like Jeremiah Wright, everyone ultimately decided it didn't matter because Obama was just sooooooooo kewl. Then when Obama's surrogates tarred Hillary, Geraldine Ferraro, and even the former "first black president" Bill as racists, it actually kind of stuck. Thus proving yet again that most people are unprincipled dickholes, and if they hate someone, that person can do no right, and if they love someone, that person can do no wrong in their eyes.

Hates gays?  The only Republican cadidate, as far as I know, that has voted for same sex marriage, hate's gays?  Don't get me wrong Ron Paul gets squirmy around gays, I don't know many 70+ year olds that don't (hell I'll admit it, I get a little queezey when I see two dudes making out) but I'm an adult and I know the reaction I have is simply because it doesn't mirror my self image, similiar to to what we were just talking about with Racisim.In the end though RP still shows himself to be above his own personal feelings and votes the concepts he believes in, which includes and individuals right to marry without government intervention.

But when you have a guy take his pants off in front of you in the middle of what was supposed to be a press interview and I'm sorry but Ron Paul was the only candidate that actaully did the rigth thing, he got up and he walked out so I don't see how that video says RP hates gay people.

All good points. Oh, except for the fact that Ron Paul has never voted for same sex marriage.



Badassbab on 05 January 2012

In some parts of the UK mass media Ron Paul is labelled as quite the radical right and they do try and ignore him. I think it's because of his foreign policy and anti-Corporatism stance that has some riled.






SamuelRSmith on 05 January 2012
badgenome said:

All good points. Oh, except for the fact that Ron Paul has never voted for same sex marriage.


He's opposed to Government involvement in the definition of marriage, has he ever voted for any marriage bill?

@kasz - Just did one of the tests (the President one, I'll try the others), my result:

Your data suggest a strong automatic preference for Thomas Jefferson compared to Barack Obama.

I thought this would come up, just by my own self-assessment on the test, I found it  easy to associate good words with Jefferson, and kept getting it wrong when the good words were assigned to Obama.



badgenome on 05 January 2012
SamuelRSmith said:
badgenome said:
 

All good points. Oh, except for the fact that Ron Paul has never voted for same sex marriage.


He's opposed to Government involvement in the definition of marriage, has he ever voted for any marriage bill?

He voted against the attempt to amend the constitution to define marriage as being between one man and one woman, but he has spoken out in support of DOMA as recently as last year and has co-sponsored a bill that would prevent federal courts from even ruling on DOMA. DOMA was passed the year before Paul took office, so he didn't actually vote for it, though.



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SamuelRSmith on 05 January 2012
badgenome said:
SamuelRSmith said:
badgenome said:
 

All good points. Oh, except for the fact that Ron Paul has never voted for same sex marriage.


He's opposed to Government involvement in the definition of marriage, has he ever voted for any marriage bill?

He voted against the attempt to amend the constitution to define marriage as being between one man and one woman, but he has spoken out in support of DOMA as recently as last year and has co-sponsored a bill that would prevent federal courts from even ruling on DOMA. DOMA was passed the year before Paul took office, so he didn't actually vote for it, though.


His argument for his support of DOMA is one of state rights. He doesn't believe that one state should have to recognise the rules of marriage in another state. Of course, this is only part of DOMA, and the rest is about a federal definition of marriage, which he is obviously opposed to.

I think what his actions point to is that he probably is (atleast slightly) homophobic, but he doesn't believe it gives him the right to legislate on homosexuality. Just like how he is opposed to drugs and prostitution, but still doesn't think there should be legislation on it.



Kasz216 on 05 January 2012
badgenome said:
SamuelRSmith said:
badgenome said:
 

All good points. Oh, except for the fact that Ron Paul has never voted for same sex marriage.


He's opposed to Government involvement in the definition of marriage, has he ever voted for any marriage bill?

He voted against the attempt to amend the constitution to define marriage as being between one man and one woman, but he has spoken out in support of DOMA as recently as last year and has co-sponsored a bill that would prevent federal courts from even ruling on DOMA. DOMA was passed the year before Paul took office, so he didn't actually vote for it, though.

The thing about DOMA though is that it basically says one state isn't forced to respect another state's gay marriage liscenses.

I'm sure Ron Paul would like to extend that to all marriages and remove the gay part in an "ideal" ron paul world.

Really, it seems like Ron Paul could be a homophobe, could be racist, be any number of things... yet it wouldn't really matter, because as president he wouldn't pass any laws about it becuse he doesn't believe that it's government's place to do such things... and he actually believes it.

Kinda like Dennis Kusinich who was pretty much the only person in the "Impeach Bush" camp that was also saying "Impeach Obama" after he did essentially the same thing as bush but WORSE. 

 

Oddly enough, you could probably say Ron Paul would be someone you could vote for as President, but not as Govonor.


Of course, Ron Paul may feel this way only because he's never been close to be president.