After the impeachment of Bill Clinton and the 2000 election results fallout, the left's completely unreasonable treatment of conservatives created a poisionous political climate that we haven't recovered from. Within days of winning the 2000 election comparisons were being made between George W. Bush and Hitler ...

Beyond that, neither political party comes close to offering any solutions that even approach fiscal conservatism and I doubt you could call either party fiscally moderate. If you've noticed Barack Obama's movements to the "Right" have really been about capturing support from "fiscally conservative" democrats and have not come close to even looking at the issues brought forward by conservatives. In other words, he is not moving to the "right" he is moving to the "center left" and you're surprised that conservatives don't embrace him when he really hasn't done anything that they like.

What are you talking about? Which government has created a law about racial segregation?

Across the world Keynesian Stimulus has been tried dozens of times and has never (ever) worked ... Look at Japan, for a decade they tried debt-driven stimulus and it only resulted in them expanding their debt to 200% of GDP and they have constantly been on the verge of recession if they take the stimulus away.

More stimulus wouldn't have resulted in any more economic activity, it would have only resulted in more debt.

My point in my eariler post was just to say that if you are going to insult people like that, people won't take you seriously. Part of the problem with political debates today is that it ends in a fight between Republicans and Democrats, with each side using the term like an insult along with a host of other insults being thrown about. Both parties are guilty of this kind of thing, yet it does no good at all and serves only to divide the country. It is not just Republicans who are attacking Democrats (and yes, some of them are bad), but Democrats do it as well to Republicans (and some of them are equally bad).

I would hardly say that Obama is moving to the right. Being conservative does not involve massive government spending, which is what Obama has been doing.

When the right talks about taking the country back, it would depend on who you ask if you want to know who that refers to. And what governments have been "amping up Jim Crow laws" recently? I haven't heard anything about that, and I would imagine that would be huge news.

I fail to see how spending more money will help when the government is trillions of dollars in debt. It doesn't work for people, it doesn't work for companies, so why on earth would it work for a government? How would a bigger stimulus help?

That is something I can agree with. Both parties are doing this. And they shouldn't be.

Some states passed laws insisting that you have to show a legal form of ID to vote and to register to vote.

In otherwords, they want you to prove who you are before you can vote to avoid fraud like double voting, non citizens voting... and all kinds of other ridiculiousness.

Some groups are calling these laws racist because minorites are less likely to have legal forms of ID and because this is happening right before the presidential election after the one where a black guy became president.  Keep in mind, other states have these laws as well and had them before Obama,(31 now a majority) and there is no evidence that it actually does stop minority voting but whatever... if you can rail aganst it why not.

Sadly "Jim Crow Laws" isn't even an exageration of the rhetoric being used by the groups against it.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/26/local/la-me-naacp-20110726

I think having to prove who you say you are in an election would be common sense personaly.

Otherwise, what's to stop me from voting in a dozen voting areas with false identities?

I tend to go with this

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204464404577112631828248266.html

Glad that our soldiers are home.
think Iran will invade iraq now? Would they be able to do it without going to war? Trouble brewing in iraq
http://news.yahoo.com/explosions-rock-baghdad-4-killed-13-injured-052105249.html
We should have at least taken their oil while we had the chance. What did we get out of Iraq?

Iran go to war with Iraq? 

Nah.  Iran & Iraq's relationship has never been better.

The end result of the Iraqi war was.... as far as I can tell.

Democracy in Iraq

More Oil and Natural Resources for China and India

Less Oil to Europe due to the corrupt "Oil for Food" program.  (Hence why most of europe was so against the Iraq invasion.  I mean, it should of been against it, but if it wasn't for Oil for food you can bet more western euroepon govs would of lined up behind the US.)

Iraq getting closer diplomacy wise with Iran and China.  (Iran sheltered a lot of political allies of the current government,  the dominant religion in Iraq and Iran is the same, Iran has played a big part in providing exports to rebuild Iran and open tourism has allowed Iraq's and Iranians to meet and share ideas.)

Iraqi Citizens disliking Americans even more.  For first, abandoning Iraq during the first gulf war, then going in again later and fucking everything up.

Trillions? added to the deficit.

Many more homless and disabled people to have to worry about as PTSD will show up and cripple thousands of soldiers causing a net drain on the economy.

Hurt relations with Turkey.

So really we got nothing.

Both World Wars the Americans saved the British from the Germans. Korean War and Vietnam War were fought for preserving freedom and democracy against the Communist threat.

Cold War: America  against Russian was an ideological war between 1945 to 1990: freedom and democracy versus Communist totalitarian dictatorship. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are being fought to preserve freedom and democracy against Terrorism. Most wars are fought with honorable intentions to preserve the foundations of freedom and democracy that we all take for granted. We should thank the brave men and women who have fought and died to preserve freedom and democracy.

I´m not so sure about that.

As for the war in Iraq, I think it created even more terrorists.

I haven't read this thread because it's already 4 pages. But all I'll say was that Obama is a true Manchurian Candidate. I think he poses like he's progressive but he's completely complicit with the total shift to the right. He moves more right under the guise of "compromising" with the uber neo-con, neo-liberalists, right-wing idiots in government.

We got a lovely speech the other week proclaiming how he's so mad a the banksters for the horrible mess they've caused but he'll continue to raise what will likely end up being over a billion dollars thanks in large part to their money.

He'll also sign the new National Defense Authorization Act which means that any one of us can be picked up by military and detained and tortured just because the executive branch says so. So hopefully my descent to the entire political system doesn't make me terrorist.

At the end of the day, Obama said we'd get change. He's right. We got change in the worst way. Instead of what he promised in his campaign, we get the exact opposite. We still fight and instigate endless wars, corporate personhood (the silliest concept ever) is strengthened, civil right, civil liberties, the Bill of Rights are all being flushed down the toilet, banks get bailed out and exonerated from wrongdoing when they are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in, and instead of investing in the American people, all the money goes to finance imperial wars to make the world safe for capitalism and US corporations while social programs are being slashed, college graduates can't find jobs, people are riddled with debt, home foreclosures are still ever present, our infrastructure (bridges, roads, highways) are crumbling to oblivion, etc.

We need an end to corporate personhood and and end to this American empire IMMEDIATELY. Money needs to be reinvested in US healthcare, education, infrastructure and social safety nets IMMEDIATELY. US needs to be on board with international human rights treaties, climate treaties, and actually respect the rule of law. This country is falling apart FAST. If things continue the way they are, I'd hate to see how things are in 10 years.

I'm still thinking his Legacy is going to be George W Bush 2 myself.

It just doesn't seem that way because right now the republicans are back with momentum and the democrats have to Rally around George W Bush 2, so the sad truth that he's been George W Bush 2 has to be pushed aside until they run a more liberal candidate vs Chris Christe (or whoever) in 4 years.