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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Android is about to become king of mobile gaming. (OnLive & GREE)

superchunk said:

iOS started off with by far the best selection of games, just as they did with apps. However, once Android became more common and secured a much larger marketshare, all those same apps are now in the Market. However, at this point in time iOS still was king of game variety, when you exclude the possibility of emulators on Android as they are not available to those who don't know how to root.

In 2012 that all changes with major additions coming to the Android gaming space.

1) Playstation brand is already making major inroads to Android this year with the inclusion of a Sony Playstation Suite and its many games as well as other content. A lot of which is exclusive to Android.

2) GREE Brings Major Gaming Studios To Android – Capcom, Konami, Square Enix and Sega All On Board. This introduces a slew of 3rd party games into Android's universe.

3) OnLive Officially Announced and Now Available For Android – Brings Full Console Gaming To Android Devices. That's right now ALL of onlive's content, which is really nearly all 3rd party games on any system or PC, will also be on Android. (granted this will eventually probably be on iOS and WM as well)

At this point you not only have all 3rd party, but a good portion of Sony first party too (something definitely not on iOS or WM). This console level of play combined with all the regular mobile offerings definitely pushes Android well into the forefront of mobile gaming.

All you need to do is snag a Wiimote or other bluetooth enabled control pad and you have yourself an instant console. Hell, given that most of the phones and tablets can easily output to a TV, you have the best of all possible worlds.

1) I think you're overestimating the importance of the PlayStation Suite. For one, you need a PlayStation Certified device to use it, and secondly, although speculative, my impression so far is that Sony want to make it easy for third parties to develop for both the Vita and smartphones, rather than bringing new first party games to smartphones. I think Sony's first party developers will be too busy trying to create exclusive content for Sony's own hardware, rather than PlayStation Certified devices which include hardware not made by Sony.

3) Not exclusive and the majority of games on OnLive are PC games. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, they don't have any non-PC games in their library, and it's still missing some big games. In other words, it's not as big as you claim it is, and you still have to deal with lag.

Android is doing fine, and the direction we're headed where phones/tablets become consoles, is quite awesome. But I think you're getting ahead of yourself.



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rocketpig said:
Galaki said:
I bought a lot of android apps. They all cost $0.

Yep. Until Android can figure out a way to convince its userbase to spend money like the typical iOS user, Apple is going to rule mobile gaming.

Not to mention that iOS is relatively unfragmented, making development much easier while Android is fragmented beyond belief. Android is a pretty good OS (I have an Android phone) but I spend virtually nothing on apps for it. Whereas hardly a week goes by where I don't drop some money in the App Store to install something new and shiny on my iPad.

Not to mention that Android is getting its ass kicked in the tablet market and the Fire is only going to hurt them in the long run. Why buy a full-featured tablet for $400 when you can get a locked-down version from Amazon for $200? It's a bad move by Google to continue to allow companies to clamp down on their operating system like this. It gives them a huge install base but it also fragments the OS to hell and makes people reluctant to buy into the platform wholesale like people have with iOS (there is a lot to be said about consistency from device to device). I can pick up any iOS device and figure it out in ten seconds. I've owned an Android phone for a year and unless the device is made by HTC, it takes me fucking forever to do anything on another Android device. That's bad business and Google fucked up big time by letting it continue for as long as it has. Google is creating zero brand loyalty with Android right now.

1) Android focuses on ads not upfront cost. 6 or half a dozen of the other its all the same. There are always ad-free versions for a cost. Consumers tend to want the free up-front cost with little ads, so in reality Android has the better system.

2) Fragmentation has been tossed out by dev after dev as really nonsense overall. Its just marketing banter from Apple mostly.

3) Tablets are really new... a real android tablet OS is not even a year old. It took a little while for Android phones to pick and and then steam roll past iOS. It will be the same in tablets as the OS has finally gotten there with Honeycomb and Ice Cream Sandwich. Then like Verizon's Droid line as the catapult for the phones, we have Kindle Fire and other lower priced android tablets to kick off the assault on tablets. We should revisit this topic in a year.

Also, when you talk about locked down tablets... umm its a tablet. Its not a laptop. The greater mass of people will only want to use it for web and fun content. I know I'd rather buy a kindle fire for cheap than buy a fully featured tablet as I don't need all the other crap. I would rather use my phone for pics/recordings/phone etc. I'd only use the tablet for reading, games, movies, browsing, etc. With that I dont' need all the extra connections, cameras, etc. Beyond that, what else is it missing?

Now, I'd rather not have Amazon's tailored UI, so I would root/rom it, but there will also be similar low cost tablets that don't have that UI as well as soon as vendors realize they should NOT be trying to build $600 laptops/tablet crossovers. Instead they should build $100 or $200 tablets.

4) I agree that Google shouldn't have allowed so much leeway with the customization on the overall UI, however, I don't think its a huge problem. For one, Nexus phones are starting to be on every carrier now and two, the various manufacturers are similar enough that its not hard to learn the differences. I've used Samsung, HTC, and Motorola and I think you're over exagerating the hardship by a lot.

Apple will continue to have higher 'loyalty' rankings just as they do in every other market they are in. Its a cult. lol, jk.

Fact is its just a different option with various plusses and minuses. I like the far larger choices and lower prices considering everything else is about the same give or take a thing here or there.



Rainbird said:

1) I think you're overestimating the importance of the PlayStation Suite. For one, you need a PlayStation Certified device to use it, and secondly, although speculative, my impression so far is that Sony want to make it easy for third parties to develop for both the Vita and smartphones, rather than bringing new first party games to smartphones. I think Sony's first party developers will be too busy trying to create exclusive content for Sony's own hardware, rather than PlayStation Certified devices which include hardware not made by Sony.

3) Not exclusive and the majority of games on OnLive are PC games. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, they don't have any non-PC games in their library, and it's still missing some big games. In other words, it's not as big as you claim it is, and you still have to deal with lag.

Android is doing fine, and the direction we're headed where phones/tablets become consoles, is quite awesome. But I think you're getting ahead of yourself.

1) Way too early to tell, but I really think it would be massively stupid to not put some form of their first party titles into this Suite to try and market this crowd to later upsell and buy a Playstation console of some sort.

3) OnLive is not exclusive, I never said it was. However, it does add a lot of variety and while there are only a small initial selection of touch enabled games, if you snag their universal bluetooth controller, it opens up all of the games to you. As for lag... idk, I've only had 2nd hand experience thus far and from that I heard it was pretty good. Not equal to consoles/pcs in terms of graphics, but pretty darn close and no lag.

I will try out the demo on my phone later when I'm home, so I can use wifi, and if that works well then I'm not worried. My next phone will have 4G LTE and that is faster than wifi, so I'm good.



superchunk said:
Rainbird said:

1) I think you're overestimating the importance of the PlayStation Suite. For one, you need a PlayStation Certified device to use it, and secondly, although speculative, my impression so far is that Sony want to make it easy for third parties to develop for both the Vita and smartphones, rather than bringing new first party games to smartphones. I think Sony's first party developers will be too busy trying to create exclusive content for Sony's own hardware, rather than PlayStation Certified devices which include hardware not made by Sony.

3) Not exclusive and the majority of games on OnLive are PC games. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, they don't have any non-PC games in their library, and it's still missing some big games. In other words, it's not as big as you claim it is, and you still have to deal with lag.

1) Way too early to tell, but I really think it would be massively stupid to not put some form of their first party titles into this Suite to try and market this crowd to later upsell and buy a Playstation console of some sort.

3) OnLive is not exclusive, I never said it was. However, it does add a lot of variety and while there are only a small initial selection of touch enabled games, if you snag their universal bluetooth controller, it opens up all of the games to you. As for lag... idk, I've only had 2nd hand experience thus far and from that I heard it was pretty good. Not equal to consoles/pcs in terms of graphics, but pretty darn close and no lag.

I will try out the demo on my phone later when I'm home, so I can use wifi, and if that works well then I'm not worried. My next phone will have 4G LTE and that is faster than wifi, so I'm good.

1) That depends on how Sony sees it. I think they'd rather have their developers on the dedicated gaming hardware where Sony earns money on all hardware and software. I don't think Sony wants to come to Android, I think Sony wants Android to come to them, and enticing Android developers to develop for the Vita is a good step in that direction I believe.

3) You claim that Android is about to be the king of mobile gaming, while pointing out how iOS has had a bigger and better gaming library up to this point. Then you highlight stuff that is also coming to iOS as reasons why Android will surpass it. I hope you see why people have been pointing out that GREE and OnLive not exclusive.

As far as the lag goes, I have limited experience myself, but according to Digital Foundry, the lag can range from something that can be ignored to something that fucks with the game experience, depending on the game and your connection.



superchunk said:

1) Android focuses on ads not upfront cost. 6 or half a dozen of the other its all the same. There are always ad-free versions for a cost. Consumers tend to want the free up-front cost with little ads, so in reality Android has the better system.

2) Fragmentation has been tossed out by dev after dev as really nonsense overall. Its just marketing banter from Apple mostly.

3) Tablets are really new... a real android tablet OS is not even a year old. It took a little while for Android phones to pick and and then steam roll past iOS. It will be the same in tablets as the OS has finally gotten there with Honeycomb and Ice Cream Sandwich. Then like Verizon's Droid line as the catapult for the phones, we have Kindle Fire and other lower priced android tablets to kick off the assault on tablets. We should revisit this topic in a year.

Also, when you talk about locked down tablets... umm its a tablet. Its not a laptop. The greater mass of people will only want to use it for web and fun content. I know I'd rather buy a kindle fire for cheap than buy a fully featured tablet as I don't need all the other crap. I would rather use my phone for pics/recordings/phone etc. I'd only use the tablet for reading, games, movies, browsing, etc. With that I dont' need all the extra connections, cameras, etc. Beyond that, what else is it missing?

Now, I'd rather not have Amazon's tailored UI, so I would root/rom it, but there will also be similar low cost tablets that don't have that UI as well as soon as vendors realize they should NOT be trying to build $600 laptops/tablet crossovers. Instead they should build $100 or $200 tablets.

4) I agree that Google shouldn't have allowed so much leeway with the customization on the overall UI, however, I don't think its a huge problem. For one, Nexus phones are starting to be on every carrier now and two, the various manufacturers are similar enough that its not hard to learn the differences. I've used Samsung, HTC, and Motorola and I think you're over exagerating the hardship by a lot.

Apple will continue to have higher 'loyalty' rankings just as they do in every other market they are in. Its a cult. lol, jk.

Fact is its just a different option with various plusses and minuses. I like the far larger choices and lower prices considering everything else is about the same give or take a thing here or there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Android. They all but have marketshare domination locked up. Now the question is whether they can convert that marketshare into money. They'll make money, without a doubt. But can they make the market as profitable as Apple has over the past half decade? That's far from a given.

Anyway:

- Return on ad money versus paid applications is hardly equal. Trust me, I make a comic and also operate four of my own websites. It takes THOUSANDS of people clicking through on my site to equal a one dollar purchase. Not even close to the same thing. The guaranteed money is going to be more profitable than ads 99% of the time. Android devs are running ads because they have to, not because they want to. I'm not talking about which system is "better", I'm talking about which is more profitable. And that's the App Store, without question.

- My point about the skinned OS is that while you will root your tablet/phone, 99% of the population will not. I've rooted an Android tablet and it was a pain in the ass. Not terribly difficult, but not exactly base-consumer stuff either. And if Google keeps letting companies skin and restrict their OS a la the Kindle Fire, it creates a market for Amazon, not Android. The consumer has no loyalty, experience, or knowledge of Android. They own a Kindle. That means when it's time to upgrade, they are just as likely to go with an Apple product as another Android. Google hasn't fostered an environment that makes people want to stay between device upgrades while Apple has created an environment that coddles (and, to a point, restricts) the user into staying forever. And given Apple's massively high profit margins on this stuff, it means everyone will continue to make money. If everybody keeps making money, games/apps/developers will stay forever as well.

Look at a game like Tiny Wings (among others). It has made soooooo much money on iOS and the developer hasn't even bothered to port it to Android. I'm sure they'll get to it sooner or later but when the App Store is the proven money-maker for developers, they will give it priority over other platforms. Another example is Contre Jour. A beautiful, great-selling game on iOS that would struggle under an advertisement model because of its limited gameplay length. Hence, the game has yet to arrive on Android while it's been on the iPad (and is one of the best games for the device) for a year or so. I can name you a half dozen *great* games for iOS that aren't available on Android yet I can't name one that has the reverse situation.




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Rainbird said:
superchunk said:
Rainbird said:

1) I think you're overestimating the importance of the PlayStation Suite. For one, you need a PlayStation Certified device to use it, and secondly, although speculative, my impression so far is that Sony want to make it easy for third parties to develop for both the Vita and smartphones, rather than bringing new first party games to smartphones. I think Sony's first party developers will be too busy trying to create exclusive content for Sony's own hardware, rather than PlayStation Certified devices which include hardware not made by Sony.

3) Not exclusive and the majority of games on OnLive are PC games. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, they don't have any non-PC games in their library, and it's still missing some big games. In other words, it's not as big as you claim it is, and you still have to deal with lag.

1) Way too early to tell, but I really think it would be massively stupid to not put some form of their first party titles into this Suite to try and market this crowd to later upsell and buy a Playstation console of some sort.

3) OnLive is not exclusive, I never said it was. However, it does add a lot of variety and while there are only a small initial selection of touch enabled games, if you snag their universal bluetooth controller, it opens up all of the games to you. As for lag... idk, I've only had 2nd hand experience thus far and from that I heard it was pretty good. Not equal to consoles/pcs in terms of graphics, but pretty darn close and no lag.

I will try out the demo on my phone later when I'm home, so I can use wifi, and if that works well then I'm not worried. My next phone will have 4G LTE and that is faster than wifi, so I'm good.

1) That depends on how Sony sees it. I think they'd rather have their developers on the dedicated gaming hardware where Sony earns money on all hardware and software. I don't think Sony wants to come to Android, I think Sony wants Android to come to them, and enticing Android developers to develop for the Vita is a good step in that direction I believe.

3) You claim that Android is about to be the king of mobile gaming, while pointing out how iOS has had a bigger and better gaming library up to this point. Then you highlight stuff that is also coming to iOS as reasons why Android will surpass it. I hope you see why people have been pointing out that GREE and OnLive not exclusive.

As far as the lag goes, I have limited experience myself, but according to Digital Foundry, the lag can range from something that can be ignored to something that fucks with the game experience, depending on the game and your connection.


My point was that Android will now not only match iOS gaming library but expand beyond it with PSuite.... plus the fact that Android is a larger market = more sales.

Yeah, I'll play with onlive tonight to see how it handles.



rocketpig said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Android. They all but have marketshare domination locked up. Now the question is whether they can convert that marketshare into money. They'll make money, without a doubt. But can they make the market as profitable as Apple has over the past half decade? That's far from a given.

Anyway:

- Return on ad money versus paid applications is hardly equal. Trust me, I make a comic and also operate four of my own websites. It takes THOUSANDS of people clicking through on my site to equal a one dollar purchase. Not even close to the same thing. The guaranteed money is going to be more profitable than ads 99% of the time. Android devs are running ads because they have to, not because they want to. I'm not talking about which system is "better", I'm talking about which is more profitable. And that's the App Store, without question.

- My point about the skinned OS is that while you will root your tablet/phone, 99% of the population will not. I've rooted an Android tablet and it was a pain in the ass. Not terribly difficult, but not exactly base-consumer stuff either. And if Google keeps letting companies skin and restrict their OS a la the Kindle Fire, it creates a market for Amazon, not Android. The consumer has no loyalty, experience, or knowledge of Android. They own a Kindle. That means when it's time to upgrade, they are just as likely to go with an Apple product as another Android. Google hasn't fostered an environment that makes people want to stay between device upgrades while Apple has created an environment that coddles (and, to a point, restricts) the user into staying forever. And given Apple's massively high profit margins on this stuff, it means everyone will continue to make money. If everybody keeps making money, games/apps/developers will stay forever as well.

Look at a game like Tiny Wings (among others). It has made soooooo much money on iOS and the developer hasn't even bothered to port it to Android. I'm sure they'll get to it sooner or later but when the App Store is the proven money-maker for developers, they will give it priority over other platforms. Another example is Contre Jour. A beautiful, great-selling game on iOS that would struggle under an advertisement model because of its limited gameplay length. Hence, the game has yet to arrive on Android while it's been on the iPad (and is one of the best games for the device) for a year or so. I can name you a half dozen *great* games for iOS that aren't available on Android yet I can't name one that has the reverse situation.

I can't really discount any of that. For one, I'm not in the industry to really know what the ROI is on a up front paid app vs ad based, but since FB operates on solely ad based plus micro transaction, I'd have to think its highly profitable... and yeah, I fully agree that Google should not have left Android as open as it has been as they do lose brand recognition to a degree. But, in your scenario above, I think the user would not look at an iPad so quickly after having a Kindle, but a new Kindle first.



superchunk said:

My point was that Android will now not only match iOS gaming library but expand beyond it with PSuite.

Which is relative. As I pointed out, having an Android phone is not enough, as you need a PlayStation Certified device, and Sony haven't promised to make any games themselves for the service/kit/store/whatever yet.

They might, but almost a year after they announced the Suite, they have released only a few PS1 games with no original content announced from them. And that's with the Vita getting close to its launch.

Make of that what you will.



Rainbird said:
superchunk said:

My point was that Android will now not only match iOS gaming library but expand beyond it with PSuite.

Which is relative. As I pointed out, having an Android phone is not enough, as you need a PlayStation Certified device, and Sony haven't promised to make any games themselves for the service/kit/store/whatever yet.

They might, but almost a year after they announced the Suite, they have released only a few PS1 games with no original content announced from them. And that's with the Vita getting close to its launch.

Make of that what you will.

I still couldn't see Sony creating this viable market on such a large market to not see this as a bridge platform and add smaller scope first party titles with the specific purpose to drive later Sony Hardware sales. It just makes too much sense and something I surmised when Sony first mentioned their Play phone and usage of Android (prior to Vita's announcement).

It seems to me that they will continue to merge Android and Playstation and utlize the massive phone/tablet market to distribute additional software. Maybe certain titles will remain on Sony hardware only (including Sony tablets/phones) but, I think there will be some on all Android phones.

As for needing to be a Playstation Certified device, I think that has more to do with Android versions, CPU/GPUs etc, than anything else. Like only Tegra based products or something.

I guess this next year will be the proof in the pudding.



superchunk said:
Rainbird said:
superchunk said:

My point was that Android will now not only match iOS gaming library but expand beyond it with PSuite.

Which is relative. As I pointed out, having an Android phone is not enough, as you need a PlayStation Certified device, and Sony haven't promised to make any games themselves for the service/kit/store/whatever yet.

They might, but almost a year after they announced the Suite, they have released only a few PS1 games with no original content announced from them. And that's with the Vita getting close to its launch.

Make of that what you will.

I still couldn't see Sony creating this viable market on such a large market to not see this as a bridge platform and add smaller scope first party titles with the specific purpose to drive later Sony Hardware sales. It just makes too much sense and something I surmised when Sony first mentioned their Play phone and usage of Android (prior to Vita's announcement).

It seems to me that they will continue to merge Android and Playstation and utlize the massive phone/tablet market to distribute additional software. Maybe certain titles will remain on Sony hardware only (including Sony tablets/phones) but, I think there will be some on all Android phones.

As for needing to be a Playstation Certified device, I think that has more to do with Android versions, CPU/GPUs etc, than anything else. Like only Tegra based products or something.

I guess this next year will be the proof in the pudding.

Yeah, the certificate might be more of a guarantee that it will play nice with the PS Suite games, I can't really remember now that you mention it.

But still, Sony hasn't exactly been pumping out content for the Xperia Play yet.