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Forums - Politics Discussion - OWS UC Davis Pepper Spray - What Really Happened

Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
Walking down a line of passive protestors and spraying them is clearly wrong. Pepper spray, along with other less than lethal weapons, should only be used to subdue aggresive people who are causing danger to themselves or others.

If they were breaking the law with their sit in then the officer could have arrested them, if they aggresively resisted arrest then he could have pepper sprayed them. What he did however, spray them when they were not aggresive, was reprehensible.


You seem to have missed the part where they already arrested people.

They arrested as many people as they could handle.  Which gave them the options of pepperspray or waiting for backup.  The second option is how dangerous riots happen.

Pepperspraying was by far the best option available.


Why would it be so hard to wait for back up? It was not an unruly mob, they were all sitting non violently. They could have simply waited them out. They had officers on both sides of the circle. No one was physically assaulting the cops. I fail to the the only choice of the cops as pepperspraying them. It was a bad move on their part and made them look bad. They could of handled it better, and they should learn from this event on how to handle it better. Not close their eyes to what they did wrong and justify it. It happens learn from it.



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It is an interest world now. People go and see if someone is on some side opposed to them, then they will go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to rationalize conduct used against the group they are opposed to. So now, don't like Occupy, so ANY conduct used against them is justified, include a Kent State style shooting. Because they have a message you disagree with. The officer that did the pepperspraying was put on suspension, and the police force thought he was out of line. But, what the heck does the police force know.

I am sure people here who disagree with Occupy feel police officer Bologna who peppersprayed the two women who were penned up in NYC was also justified in doing it.

And of course the goal was to generate bad PR for the authorities.  Why does one expect protesters to try to make the system they are opposed to look good?



I'm still trying to figure out why school authorities were intending to prevent college students from congregating on their own college campus.  I'm sure when the local vendors show up and set up booths on those same sidewalks, nobody cares.

What is especially ironic in all of this is that the initial rally that lead to protests was organized by a faculty member, and they rally was intended to speak out against the use of violence against protesters at UC Berkley.

That faculty member wrote an Open Letter to Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi, explaining the intent of the protests and calling for the Chancellor to step down:

Today you ordered police onto our campus to clear student protesters from the quad. These were protesters who participated in a rally speaking out against tuition increases and police brutality on UC campuses on Tuesday—a rally that I organized, and which was endorsed by the Davis Faculty Association. These students attended that rally in response to a call for solidarity from students and faculty who were bludgeoned with batons, hospitalized, and arrested at UC Berkeley last week. In the highest tradition of non-violent civil disobedience, those protesters had linked arms and held their ground in defense of tents they set up beside Sproul Hall. In a gesture of solidarity with those students and faculty, and in solidarity with the national Occupy movement, students at UC Davis set up tents on the main quad. When you ordered police outfitted with riot helmets, brandishing batons and teargas guns to remove their tents today, those students sat down on the ground in a circle and linked arms to protect them.


richardhutnik said:

It is an interest world now. People go and see if someone is on some side opposed to them, then they will go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to rationalize conduct used against the group they are opposed to. So now, don't like Occupy, so ANY conduct used against them is justified, include a Kent State style shooting. Because they have a message you disagree with. The officer that did the pepperspraying was put on suspension, and the police force thought he was out of line. But, what the heck does the police force know.

I am sure people here who disagree with Occupy feel police officer Bologna who peppersprayed the two women who were penned up in NYC was also justified in doing it.

And of course the goal was to generate bad PR for the authorities.  Why does one expect protesters to try to make the system they are opposed to look good?

I'm not saying they should. What i meant is that while the police had to do something, they (or whoever was ordering them, as makingmusic's post discusses) should have been aware that protests are primarily a battle of PR, and that reacting (especially with force) is going to play right into their hands.

A firm but peaceful protest needs to be dealt with in kind (peacefully and firmly dismantle it), or else you are going to be totally screwed in the public eye.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Galaki said:
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
Walking down a line of passive protestors and spraying them is clearly wrong. Pepper spray, along with other less than lethal weapons, should only be used to subdue aggresive people who are causing danger to themselves or others.

If they were breaking the law with their sit in then the officer could have arrested them, if they aggresively resisted arrest then he could have pepper sprayed them. What he did however, spray them when they were not aggresive, was reprehensible.

You seem to have missed the part where they already arrested people.

They arrested as many people as they could handle.  Which gave them the options of pepperspray or waiting for backup.  The second option is how dangerous riots happen.

Pepperspraying was by far the best option available.

Wait. Isn't that a thought crime? You're assuming the worse could happen used chemical weapon to prevent something that may or may not happen.

No?

Aside from which, prior bad acts.  Occupy Oakland was supposed to go down and support Occupy UC Davis.... and they very specifically started a violent riot while the cops waited for backup.



makingmusic476 said:

I'm still trying to figure out why school authorities were intending to prevent college students from congregating on their own college campus.  I'm sure when the local vendors show up and set up booths on those same sidewalks, nobody cares.

What is especially ironic in all of this is that the initial rally that lead to protests was organized by a faculty member, and they rally was intended to speak out against the use of violence against protesters at UC Berkley.

That faculty member wrote an Open Letter to Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi, explaining the intent of the protests and calling for the Chancellor to step down:

Today you ordered police onto our campus to clear student protesters from the quad. These were protesters who participated in a rally speaking out against tuition increases and police brutality on UC campuses on Tuesday—a rally that I organized, and which was endorsed by the Davis Faculty Association. These students attended that rally in response to a call for solidarity from students and faculty who were bludgeoned with batons, hospitalized, and arrested at UC Berkeley last week. In the highest tradition of non-violent civil disobedience, those protesters had linked arms and held their ground in defense of tents they set up beside Sproul Hall. In a gesture of solidarity with those students and faculty, and in solidarity with the national Occupy movement, students at UC Davis set up tents on the main quad. When you ordered police outfitted with riot helmets, brandishing batons and teargas guns to remove their tents today, those students sat down on the ground in a circle and linked arms to protect them.

You kidding?  You set up a vendors booth on a college campus without paying for the proper permits and they'll hit you with a massive fine.  Colleges gotta make their money.



Kasz216 said:
Galaki said:
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
Walking down a line of passive protestors and spraying them is clearly wrong. Pepper spray, along with other less than lethal weapons, should only be used to subdue aggresive people who are causing danger to themselves or others.

If they were breaking the law with their sit in then the officer could have arrested them, if they aggresively resisted arrest then he could have pepper sprayed them. What he did however, spray them when they were not aggresive, was reprehensible.

You seem to have missed the part where they already arrested people.

They arrested as many people as they could handle.  Which gave them the options of pepperspray or waiting for backup.  The second option is how dangerous riots happen.

Pepperspraying was by far the best option available.

Wait. Isn't that a thought crime? You're assuming the worse could happen used chemical weapon to prevent something that may or may not happen.

No?

Aside from which, prior bad acts.  Occupy Oakland was supposed to go down and support Occupy UC Davis.... and they very specifically started a violent riot while the cops waited for backup.

Didn't the police also the agressors in that case? Regardless, just because 1 group did something, you justified the police action on another group?

Sure, they did something you don't agree with, but surely, they don't deserve the chemical weapons used on them.



Rath said:
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
Walking down a line of passive protestors and spraying them is clearly wrong. Pepper spray, along with other less than lethal weapons, should only be used to subdue aggresive people who are causing danger to themselves or others.

If they were breaking the law with their sit in then the officer could have arrested them, if they aggresively resisted arrest then he could have pepper sprayed them. What he did however, spray them when they were not aggresive, was reprehensible.


You seem to have missed the part where they already arrested people.

They arrested as many people as they could handle.  Which gave them the options of pepperspray or waiting for backup.  The second option is how dangerous riots happen.

Pepperspraying was by far the best option available.

No, aggressive police behaviour against passive protests is how riots happen.

See the Occupy Oakland.  Or the London student riots.  Where things got out of hand because the police showed they had lost control of the situation.



Mr Khan said:
richardhutnik said:

It is an interest world now. People go and see if someone is on some side opposed to them, then they will go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to rationalize conduct used against the group they are opposed to. So now, don't like Occupy, so ANY conduct used against them is justified, include a Kent State style shooting. Because they have a message you disagree with. The officer that did the pepperspraying was put on suspension, and the police force thought he was out of line. But, what the heck does the police force know.

I am sure people here who disagree with Occupy feel police officer Bologna who peppersprayed the two women who were penned up in NYC was also justified in doing it.

And of course the goal was to generate bad PR for the authorities.  Why does one expect protesters to try to make the system they are opposed to look good?

I'm not saying they should. What i meant is that while the police had to do something, they (or whoever was ordering them, as makingmusic's post discusses) should have been aware that protests are primarily a battle of PR, and that reacting (especially with force) is going to play right into their hands.

A firm but peaceful protest needs to be dealt with in kind (peacefully and firmly dismantle it), or else you are going to be totally screwed in the public eye.


From a PR standpoint sure... but i'm sure a police officer would rather keep the peace through non-dangerous means and keep everyone alive rather then risking serious injury and possible death of the protestors.