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Forums - Nintendo - What Zelda and Metroid for the 3DS should be

Khuutra said:
miz1q2w3e said:

I meant pixel sprites (like snes graphics)

Though you mentioned Muramasa, I LOVED the art in that game. Also:

The graphics in Braid were sprites made of pixels! You had a problem with the art style, not the mode of graphic display.

Both are forms of 2D display but the sprites in games like Braid and Muramasa are different from snes games and the like. They're higher res, have more colors...etc - They look completely different form each other imo

When I say pixel sprites, I mean this

I get what you mean when you say Braid's and Muramasa's graphics were made from 2D 'sprites', but I'm refering to the graphical style of past 2D games, aka a 2D index map with a palette of indexed colors... Braid is to snes sprites as jpeg is to GIF

Also I'll add, you're right, I didn't like the art style in Braid that much, that's why even though Braid = Muramasa in sprite type, I loved Muramasa's art style >>> Braid



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Rol, I think you expressed my way of thinking. Maybe when nintendo decides it wants to please its fans instead of fertilizing their ego(sakamoto).



I really would like the idea of games like A Link to the Past and Super Metroid on the 3DS. As Rol said, those kinds of games never stopped selling, but they were just stopped being made because the N64 put so much focus on 3D environments that all Nintendo franchises moved to 3D, and because Nintendo was so great at recreating these games in 3D. But I also think that you have to give credit to Nintendo for bringing 2D back: If it weren't for NSMB, we wouldn't have any 2D games now, not from other publishers either. I also don't really get your issue with 3D Mario, because it is very clear that we will get a new 2D Mario sooner or later. I mean, it is not the same team that creates the Galaxy games (EAD Tokyo) and the Bros games (EAD 4 or any other number), so I'm pretty sure the Bros team is already working on a new game, probably for the Wii U.
Also, it is not only Mario that Nintendo re-established in 2D but also Donkey Kong, and they were already testing the waters a little bit with Other M, so your critique about Nintendo doesn't seem really fair to me.

Now for the two games we are actually talking about: I think a new side-scrolling Metroid is definitely a possibility, because other forms of the franchise didn't really succeed to sell well. Top-Down Zelda is a bit more unlikely I'm afraid, but I think the 3D Zeldas are not as different from the 2D games as it is the case in the Mario and Metroid franchise, so no 2D Zelda is more acceptable than no 2D Mario or Metroid to me.



Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia Legends (GC), Dragon Quest IV (DS)

Last Game beaten: The Rub Rabbits(DS)

The best part of Metroid's timeline is how simple it is to make Metroid games that have zero to do with it. It's too bad that Nintendo doesn't seem to understand that (well, Retro understood).
Samus is a bounty hunter and she isn't as bound to the history of the world of Metroid as Link and Zelda is to their world. The only thing you need to figure out is the reason for there being metroids in the game and you're set. And considering that those flying jellyfishies are spreading throughout the galaxy faster than the zerg thanks to space pirates, scientists etc. that shouldn't be a problem.

I guess another problem would be the suit upgrades. A simple solution to that would be upgrades specific to the worlds Samus visits. Once Samus leaves the place she loses her upgrades and you won't ever need to use that damn authorization fix for the next game because Samus already comes equipped with enough weaponry to blow up the moon. This solution would also make every Metroid game more unique in terms of upgrades, environments, enemies etc.
We've already mastered the basic upgrades such as missiles, bombs, grapple beam etc. so those should be enabled from the beginning. I want the designers to come up with new equipment instead of making me search for the missile for the nth time. This goes for Zelda as well. No more knowing beforehand what atleast 4/5 of the upgrades will consist of.



RolStoppable said:

Directions: I was thinking of it along the lines of ALttP. While you can move into eight directions in that game, Link can only face four.

Upgrades: It wouldn't become Monster Hunter just because there's now two to three times as many swords than before. Also, the upgrade system wouldn't be like in MH or Skyward Sword which forces you to collect some random junk. Upgrades would simply be hidden in caves and dangerous places like dungeons. And since not every room of a dungeon needs to be visited and items wouldn't be essential to complete the dungeon, it would be perfectly possible to miss them.

An alternative for the different swords I suggested previously would be a single one that also has an upgradable beam and some special attacks. For example, the strength of the sword could be improved four times over the course of the game, the beam three times and a couple of special attacks each with one upgrade that increases their effect or makes them charge at a faster rate. Something like that.

Metroid timeline: I know it's not important, just like the Zelda timeline is crap.

Size: Maybe a Master Quest-like scenario would be better for Metroid then. Same planet, different locations for the majority of items, higher difficulty. In any case, something should be done to increase the playtime and there must be a solution that doesn't make the game boring, empty or annoying.


I find all of these ideas agreeable. Master Quest scenarios need to be more standard in general. It should be implemented in all Zelda games, though, not just the 2D ones. I'm not as sure about the viability of that option in 3D Metroids, but then I'm also unsure of anything that would hinder it, so it would probably work. It's a bit tougher for Metroid, I guess, in that there's no overworld/dungeon separation, so the entire world has to be redesigned. Probably easier in 2D than 3D.



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RolStoppable said:

The 3DS is a capable system, it just needs to be used correctly. How to not use a system properly, that we have seen when it came to Zelda and Metroid on the DS. Two touchscreen controlled Zelda titles which undermined the combat aspect of the game along with other idiotic design decisions and Metroid being turned into a brainless FPS with a halfassed solo campaign that ends with seven energy tanks and just a little over 100 missiles. It's time that Nintendo restores the glory of these two series with 3DS entries and here are my ideas.

The Legend of Zelda

1. Story/setting: Only the bare minimum is necessary, it's time to get rid of the bloated junk. Hyrule and Princess Zelda are in need of a hero to defeat the evil Ganon. Yeah, that's nothing new, but who the hell cares.

2. Gameplay: Strict topdown perspective, strong focus on challenging combat with only few puzzles added to the mix (no more than ALttP had). Items that prove themselves useful in many situations with plenty of upgrades to be found (many more than ALttP had). Slide pad allows you to move into more than just eight directions.

3. 3D: Not going to be essential (it never is), but adds more depth to the topdown perspective.

Metroid

1. Story/setting: Only the bare minimum is necessary, it's time to get rid of the bloated junk. It's probably better to fit this game somewhere inbetween Metroid 2 and 3 or Metroid 3 and 4, rather than making it Metroid 5 which could be troublesome due to the whole Fusion Suit incident. One gigantic planet to explore with several areas on the surface and several below the surface (I am thinking 15-20 in total).

2. Gameplay: Strict sidescrolling view, emulating what made Super Metroid great, but with a higher level of difficulty. It is okay to die. Item count bumped up to 200, missile expansions only add two missiles to your total. The bigger game world has to be filled with goodies, after all. Holding down one shoulder button allows you to shoot in all directions while standing still, holding down the other one allows you to "lock" Samus' arm and move pretty much however you want (sort of an advanced moon walk from Super Metroid).

3. 3D: Not going to be essential (it never is), but adds more depth to the polygon environments.

The Legend of Zelda & Metroid

Now here's the big thing for both games: the bottom screen.

Remember the NES days when you basically had to draw maps to not get lost in Zelda and Metroid? Remember how the SNES iterations added convenient in-game maps? Do you know the Etrian Odyssey series? If yes, you already know what's coming now.

Both games won't offer an automap, but will force you to draw your own maps for the overworld and dungeons in Zelda and all the different areas in Metroid. The only thing the game will do for you is mark the tiles you've visited on your map screen (1 tile = 1 screen on the topscreen), but walls, doors, hints and all the other stuff you have to add by yourself, because drawing a map of your surroundings greatly adds to the feel of exploration.

Due to the amount of data the maps take, only two save files per game card will be available. Map data will carry over to a new game, if the player wishes to do so, for convenience's sake. During the game, maps can be drawn without having to pause the game.

 

At this stage, seen as though we already have Ocarina of time I would prefer a new Metroid game. Maybe that will be announced next year at E3?





Mr Khan said:
oniyide said:
RolStoppable said:
oniyide said:
Interesting ideas, I dont agree with the get rid of the bloat thing, I like that each Zelda adds something new to the lore, if it didnt what would be the point of getting excited?? I would just stick to one of the older Zeldas or Metroids and save the money. Like Conegamer you want Zelda 1 and Super Metroid, play those games. Minish Cap might have been produced by Capcom but its closer to LttP than either of the DS games, same goes for Metroid.
Another interesting point is that Ninty most likely wont make these games for 3DS as that system is geared more towards 3D games and I agree. But has anyone stopped to think that if Ninty gets there crap together with online that we can see games like this on a WiiU type store. Something akin to PSNStore and XBLA, I know I know "online is bad because, it wont be worth as much." But if they are not going to make it for 3DS then they sure as hell wont make it for WiiU an online store might be the way to go.

You should know by now that what you want is usually the opposite of what Nintendo needs to do to be successful.

The idea of an online store is to sell games that can't be sold as boxed games for various reasons. None of these reasons apply to Zelda and Metroid games like proposed in the original post. Although if Nintendo intends to marginalize or kill classic Zelda and Metroid (which is possible considering how they are treating classic Mario), then download-only games might be the way to go. Sega has already shown how to do it with Sonic 4.

This is exactly what i think they will do and it seems to be that you think so too?  Would we rather have NO classic style Zelda or Metriod or would we rather have it on a DL store, im going with the latter.

But it's not an issue of either or. Nintendo seems not to have the capacity to be making both old school and new school Metroids and Zeldas (whether or not they actually lack the capacity is a different debate), and if you're going to be spending your resources on making a game, why sell a version that maybe not all your consumers can buy (due to potential lack of high speed internet or them being too apathetic to set up internet on the console) for $10 a pop when you can sell a version you know all your consumers can buy for $50 a go.

You might as well go whole hog at that point, which brings it up into either-or territory, though Nintendo seems to be splitting the burden among their teams well, they still need more of them.

Going by what Rol said, they will not be making those games for 3DS, (maybe Metroid). Its not about whether they have the capacity but the desire. If they feel that those 2d games are not worth a full retail release, then why not put them on a DL network?? Everyone else does it and they seem to do ok for the most part. Im not saying i totally agree with it.



I thought Miyamoto already said he wanted a top down Zelda similar to ALttP on the 3DS? As for Zelda, I'm all for what Rol said, but I like my puzzles so i don't want the puzzles to be as few as Rol wants em. I totally enjoyed drawing my map in Spirit Tracks, especially those dark rooms where you had to light touches to find your way and draw your entire map yourself. I just don't think you should have to draw the whole map yourself all the time. And critics say that there are sections in Mario 3D Land that are almost impossible to pass without the 3D so Rol might be wrong in this regard, and I hope that Zelda can prove that to me.
Metroid, I'd like a game that plays like Other M with just a few changes. 1. Change the health system back to what we're used to.......collecting floating health/ammo packs.
2. Better puzzles
3. More emphasis on exploration and puzzle solving than just combat. That's what makes the combat fun.
4. Proper scanning like in the Prime series, not the watered down scanning Other M had.



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Well Other M was definitely closer to a 2D game than the Prime games were, and if NSMB wouldn't have happened before, I don't think Nintendo would have dared to put 2D sections in their big games like Other M or Mario Galaxy 2.

I think that IF we happen to see a new Metroid during the upcoming console generation (3DS and WiiU), it will be a sidescrolling game. Chances are high that the franchise will skip another generation and then be reinvented completely again though.



Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia Legends (GC), Dragon Quest IV (DS)

Last Game beaten: The Rub Rabbits(DS)

That's not true, there were definitely some sections where you could only move in two directions while not being in a Morph Ball tunnel in Metroid Other M. I'm not sure how many of them existed though.

I agree with the things you say about 3D Mario, but you make it sound like a bad thing. I would say it is a good move from Nintendo that they are trying to implement the things people like about 2D Mario into the 3D games. Of course, if the goal is to replace the 2D games with 3D ones, it would be bad, but I'm pretty sure this isn't the case. The first Mario game on the WiiU will be in 2D, you will see.



Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia Legends (GC), Dragon Quest IV (DS)

Last Game beaten: The Rub Rabbits(DS)