Hold your horses, Tales of the Abyss 3DS is already out in Europe?

It's officially out in 2 hours (or at least in the U.K).  My copy should arrive tomorrow morning.

I don't fully agree with you or Padib, but I can't deny Padib didn't just seriously school you. His last response made my wall of words look like a bump on the ground.

I agree in essence more with Padib then you, though you had some good points initially when I was disagreeing with Padib. Both of you are intelligent and knowledgable but both seem to be on two extremes, Rol you want the old way you want your old classics and at the same time casual stuff. Padib he wants the new stuff ditch the old and give us some new give us an Uncharted or Halo killer. Im more in the middle.

Miyamoto is essential to Nintendo as is most of their high class developers. Giving them freedom to make the games they want to make all of which are hits is not possibly bad. Miyamoto hasn't made a single title that sold less then a million copies and many of the EAD leaders likewise have never made a crappy title for Nintendo.

Super Mario Bros was not needed to counter Sonic. Nintendo should not have hired someone else to make Mario titles by the dozen to compete. Miyamoto has done an amazing job over seeing Mario and each and every title in the series is unique and new, offering new experiences. Nintendo shouldn't crank out titles annually like some other companies they should make sure to support all of their major IP while bringing new IP to the table.

I still do not think it would be smart or a Nintendo move for Nintendo to start creating games with the intent of countering. Using cultural trends to make products, they would be a step behind. That being said I do think that Nintendo should be bringing new master pieces to their consoles at the beginning of each generation when new IP tend to do the best.

Maybe a Nintendo EAD studio under Miyamoto or one of Nintendo's other legends should be put entirely on new IP development. Not make a Steel Diver but a Skyward Sword quality new IP, then take that new IP and work with it. Nintendo needs another Mario or Pokemon sure their current library is great but they do need the next big cultural phenomena. Also Nintendo opening a few studios in North America to make new games that focus on NA would be great. Not necessarily make a Halo rip off or Uncharted rip off, but our societies are different and different things appeal to different regions.

Pikmin was a great start, though I must say the franchise hasn't proven itself to be massive yet. Its success on GameCube was very admirable but we don't know how well it will do on WiiU or if it would have done amazing on Wii. Nintendo did a great job during the GameCube era bringing Animal Crossing, Custom Robo and such to North America and the world.

The answer hate to say it Rol is not more Super Mario Bros and Padib it isn't an Uncharted rip off. Its a mixture with new unique games whether they be a new Mario game offering a unique and brand new experience or a new IP offering a brand new unique experience. Rehashing what you've already done before or rehashing what someone else did is not going to help Nintendo. Just look at Animal Crossing City Folk as proof, Nintendo pumped out Wild World 2.0 for Wii offering almost nothing new except the city. City Folk failed to perform in comparison with WW. People may pretend to want more of the exact same product and miraculously that seems to work for Activision. But Nintendo consumers don't.

well, I'm 50% casual 50% core, so I can't wait to see what they'll think of!!

What are these hardcore games that came out this year?

I don't recall hardly any games coming out this year.

What are these single-entity IPs you talk of?  I can list numerous new IPs this generation from Sony and Microsoft that went from 1-3.  Lets see....  Uncharted (since you love it so much I'll list it first), Gears of War, Killzone, Resistance, and the list goes on.  Basically, if they see the game sells more than 2 million they jump on a sequel.  I am not complaining about the amount of sequels that has taken over the industry but give me a fucking break you act like Sony is the only one making new IPs or single-entity IPs when that isn't the case. 

Nintendo has probably released more new IPs for the DS/Wii than Microsoft and Sony have for their systems.  Their new IP efforts are still valid even though you might not enjoy their new IPs or consider them catered to casuals.  Hardcore gamers do not have the purchasing power as the casuals.  There are more casual gamers than hardcore gamers.  Nintendo would be foolish to not cater towards the market that helped them the most.  Guess what?  Most would consider me a hardcore gamer even though I like to play some casual games (I've been gaming before most teenagers were born on this site, and I don't really like the stupid name titles "hardcore" , "casual") and I see zero problem with Nintendo's long term strategy. 

Basically, I don't even know what the fuck the point of this thread is anymore.  The arguments have spanned the entire gaming industry.  Should I bring up Atari 2600 now? 

@padib, oh I wouldn't say I was angry. It just seemed like this thread had two strong minded ideas that are butting heads against each other with no side gaining any advantage. If anything the conversation in this thread has been a little frustrating.

Perhaps they need more balance between hardcore and casual but the main reason for this could be the lack of third party titles. During the NES/SNES era you didn't hear really anything about how Nintendo is neglecting the hardcore gamer (unless it was from Sega)!! Probably because they had tons of support from the third party companies to fill in the voids of certain genres. I personally believe Nintendo doesn't need to make a "hardcore" title. They can let their titles become hardcore titles. Even most titles that almost any gamer on any site would consider casual, I consider hardcore (such as Animal Crossing). Also, look at the Smash series. It is a series that has very hardcore roots (tons of tournaments, people that play the game numerous hours, etc..) On the outside it doesn't really look like a hardcore title. Oh look Mario and his gang fighting but there aren't any blood, finishing moves, etc... However, on the inside it has tons of strategy, competition, etc to keep a "hardcore" gamer playing it for 100s/1000s of hours.

It is all about how your view a game/company. If you think the game is kiddie then it is pretty hard to shake that image. If you think a game is hardcore then it is hard for someone to convince you that it is kiddie. I could argue that Halo, Gears, Uncharted, are any beloved hardcore franchise is actually a kiddie/casual game.