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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Wii U vs PS4 vs Xbox One FULL SPECS (January 24, 2014)

Wyrdness said:

I May be late here but I'll ask anyway, on other boards I'm hearing a rumour that the XBO's GPU has actually been down clocked to a possible 800-900GFlops due to the ESram yeilds or what ever they're call anyone know about this or is it old and debunked as the OP still has 1.2Tflops?

 

Edit: This seems to be doing the rounds on GAF

That part is still rumor. When its confirmed, I'll update because as of now the reliable info is still 1.2TF.



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Ok I see, thanks.



So as crazy as that rumor sounds I was thinking about it and it could be just as possible as not. At first you'd think that there would be no way in hell MS would be in a situation even remotely similar to the RROD, not that this will or would be.

The hardware development process is lengthy and complex. The technology needs to be decided upon, contracts made, tests made, kits handed out to developers. If a problem comes around you might have to work through it as it might be to difficult, costly, and time-consuming to make any big changes.

We've heard the rumors for a while about yield issues regarding the X1. Issues that delayed the original 2012 launch date outlined in the leaked X1 plan overlay document. A delay that would be supported by MS's lack of first party titles in 2012, even if rumors suggest X1 games are behind PS4 games in the development process; perhaps they are, and the X1 would never have had a large stockpile of exclusive titles if it weren't for the delay yet that stockpile is still short of PS4's, if both rumors are considered true that is. Something still possible considering MS's 1st party history and only recent accumulation of studios.

Now, if that delay is more than just a yield issue, but also a heating issue than how do they solve it? They've already delayed it, can't afford that again, so they can try to cool the console down and use the hot chips until a manufacturing fix comes for a remodel. So the console is big and spacey to house a giant fan at low rpms to be quiet, has a titanic head sink, and a vent that is half the console. Sounds like overkill on the cooling end right? It is, unless there is a heating issue they are trying/have to fix. Question is, will all of those over the top heating fixes would they need to underclock to 800-900 gigaflops? Given the cooling extremes the console seems to be taking, maybe it is true. Or maybe they avoided having to with the console design.



Before the PS3 everyone was nice to me :(

Chark said:

So as crazy as that rumor sounds I was thinking about it and it could be just as possible as not. At first you'd think that there would be no way in hell MS would be in a situation even remotely similar to the RROD, not that this will or would be.

The hardware development process is lengthy and complex. The technology needs to be decided upon, contracts made, tests made, kits handed out to developers. If a problem comes around you might have to work through it as it might be to difficult, costly, and time-consuming to make any big changes.

We've heard the rumors for a while about yield issues regarding the X1. Issues that delayed the original 2012 launch date outlined in the leaked X1 plan overlay document. A delay that would be supported by MS's lack of first party titles in 2012, even if rumors suggest X1 games are behind PS4 games in the development process; perhaps they are, and the X1 would never have had a large stockpile of exclusive titles if it weren't for the delay yet that stockpile is still short of PS4's, if both rumors are considered true that is. Something still possible considering MS's 1st party history and only recent accumulation of studios.

Now, if that delay is more than just a yield issue, but also a heating issue than how do they solve it? They've already delayed it, can't afford that again, so they can try to cool the console down and use the hot chips until a manufacturing fix comes for a remodel. So the console is big and spacey to house a giant fan at low rpms to be quiet, has a titanic head sink, and a vent that is half the console. Sounds like overkill on the cooling end right? It is, unless there is a heating issue they are trying/have to fix. Question is, will all of those over the top heating fixes would they need to underclock to 800-900 gigaflops? Given the cooling extremes the console seems to be taking, maybe it is true. Or maybe they avoided having to with the console design.

It's not an overheating problem that's causing the downgrade, according to GAF it's a yield problem caused by the design MS have implemented in the APU. To put it as basically as I can from what I've read the ESRAM is taking up a lot of space on the APU leaving other components little space on the die which results in loads of transistors but little power from it as the CPU and GPU are using so little of the die. The problem now is that the ESRAM is pivotal to the console's design as indicated by the below tweet so removing it or changing it is a no go which means the change has to come from the GPU to improve yields, if the console is experiencing heating problems as well then that's even more of a kicker.

 



So that puts WiiU in a better position for multiplats ri?ght



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DieAppleDie said:
So that puts WiiU in a better position for multiplats ri?ght

I'm affraid that not really.

Even if the Xbox One end up with "only" 900 GFlops, that's still at least twice what the WiiU has, and then there's the matter of the RAM. WiiU only has 1 GB for games while the others have a lot more.

This news about the Xbone only mean (if true) that the multiplats between Xbone, PS4 and PC will be like low, med and high detail. WiiU would be super low.

(But it's only my opinion)



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
DieAppleDie said:
So that puts WiiU in a better position for multiplats ri?ght

I'm affraid that not really.

Even if the Xbox One end up with "only" 900 GFlops, that's still at least twice what the WiiU has, and then there's the matter of the RAM. WiiU only has 1 GB for games while the others have a lot more.

This news about the Xbone only mean (if true) that the multiplats between Xbone, PS4 and PC will be like low, med and high detail. WiiU would be super low.

(But it's only my opinion)


Twice is not that much of a problem as games are scaled not too mention the numbers for U are still up in the air as the GPU is an unknown propriety so it may have functions built in that don't show up in numbers people should get out of the habit of declaring the U's power as fact, the main issue is ram but that's mainly a case of textures, draw distance and such in games these are things that can be scaled.



Wyrdness said:
JEMC said:
DieAppleDie said:
So that puts WiiU in a better position for multiplats ri?ght

I'm affraid that not really.

Even if the Xbox One end up with "only" 900 GFlops, that's still at least twice what the WiiU has, and then there's the matter of the RAM. WiiU only has 1 GB for games while the others have a lot more.

This news about the Xbone only mean (if true) that the multiplats between Xbone, PS4 and PC will be like low, med and high detail. WiiU would be super low.

(But it's only my opinion)


Twice is not that much of a problem as games are scaled not too mention the numbers for U are still up in the air as the GPU is an unknown propriety so it may have functions built in that don't show up in numbers people should get out of the habit of declaring the U's power as fact, the main issue is ram but that's mainly a case of textures, draw distance and such in games these are things that can be scaled.

But how much can a game be scaled down without being a disaster? Dead Rising was scaled down on Wii, and it was nothing like the original game.

It's true that WiiU's power is still unknown, and it could be more powerful than we think. But the lower than expected power of the Xbox i still a rumor, which if it's not true will leave things like they were before.

Some have said to wait until this Christmas to make judgements given that there will be a few games that will be launched for current and next-gen consoles. Using those games like Assassin's Creed, Watchdogs or CoD we will have something to compare (although I think they will use their old engines for the current gen and WiiU games and their newer, better engines for the other consoles).



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:

But how much can a game be scaled down without being a disaster? Dead Rising was scaled down on Wii, and it was nothing like the original game.

It's true that WiiU's power is still unknown, and it could be more powerful than we think. But the lower than expected power of the Xbox i still a rumor, which if it's not true will leave things like they were before.

Some have said to wait until this Christmas to make judgements given that there will be a few games that will be launched for current and next-gen consoles. Using those games like Assassin's Creed, Watchdogs or CoD we will have something to compare (although I think they will use their old engines for the current gen and WiiU games and their newer, better engines for the other consoles).


The Wii didn't use the same pipelines and graphical techniques as other devices and platforms that was a main factor in developers struggling with it, you couldn't port assets over and downscale you had to redo the game engine and asset. The U uses the same approach as other platforms and devices that's a big difference, Watch Dogs was running on the U possibly from as early as last years going by Ubisofts comments with PC being the lead platform if it was hard to get to run on the U that wouldn't be the case not to mention the are no 360 and PS3 versions in development until the U/XBO/PS4 versions are done this indicates the engines are fine running on it so even with out the rumour the U was fine.

If the rumour is true it just means PS4 will be left down to its exclusives to tap into it's power as twice the performance on the XBO's GPU over the speculated numbers of the U GPU is not that much better, that's a non issue gap for platforms.



Wyrdness said:
JEMC said:

But how much can a game be scaled down without being a disaster? Dead Rising was scaled down on Wii, and it was nothing like the original game.

It's true that WiiU's power is still unknown, and it could be more powerful than we think. But the lower than expected power of the Xbox i still a rumor, which if it's not true will leave things like they were before.

Some have said to wait until this Christmas to make judgements given that there will be a few games that will be launched for current and next-gen consoles. Using those games like Assassin's Creed, Watchdogs or CoD we will have something to compare (although I think they will use their old engines for the current gen and WiiU games and their newer, better engines for the other consoles).


The Wii didn't use the same pipelines and graphical techniques as other devices and platforms that was a main factor in developers struggling with it, you couldn't port assets over and downscale you had to redo the game engine and asset. The U uses the same approach as other platforms and devices that's a big difference, Watch Dogs was running on the U possibly from as early as last years going by Ubisofts comments with PC being the lead platform if it was hard to get to run on the U that wouldn't be the case not to mention the are no 360 and PS3 versions in development until the U/XBO/PS4 versions are done this indicates the engines are fine running on it so even with out the rumour the U was fine.

If the rumour is true it just means PS4 will be left down to its exclusives to tap into it's power as twice the performance on the XBO's GPU over the speculated numbers of the U GPU is not that much better, that's a non issue gap for platforms.

I know about the disadvantages Wii had compared to the other consoles, but the point is still the same. When a game is based on the number of enemies like Dead Rising, you can't scale it down to a point there are few enemies. And the same will be true for open world games.

I'm not sure RAM will be too much of a problem with textures, as they can be streamed from the disc on the fly, without the need to have them storaged on the RAM (although they will be of a smaller size/quality than the textures for the other consoles).

The thing is, with the figures we had until now, there were developers talking about the PS4 version of their games being at 1080p@60fps while the Xbox One version being 720p@60fps. If those are their targets, what will they do with WiiU? 640p@30fps?  

I wouldn't mind that, it's perfectly fine for me. But given how later in the gen devs will need more power to "fulfill their vision" (ie. to make the games pretier, not better), how will the WiiU be able to cope with that?



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.