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Forums - General Discussion - Twas the Night Before Christmas-Mafia Round 35

Final-Fan on 03 November 2011
theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:

"If I were to say "a car almost hit a man on his way to work" and you responded with "there weren't any cars out last night", would we be talking about the same thing?"
That would depend on when he was going to work. 

I'll answer this in a minute, but for now

why would you assume he worked overnight shifts

I wouldn't, ordinarily.  But that wouldn't exclude the possibility that he DID, so we might "be talking about the same thing" after all.  And there might be a reason for me to suppose we were talking about a man that worked overnight shifts, and I suppose you'll be connecting this analogy soon? 



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theprof00 on 03 November 2011
Final-Fan said:
theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:

"If I were to say "a car almost hit a man on his way to work" and you responded with "there weren't any cars out last night", would we be talking about the same thing?"
That would depend on when he was going to work. 

I'll answer this in a minute, but for now

why would you assume he worked overnight shifts

I wouldn't, ordinarily.  But that wouldn't exclude the possibility that he DID, so we might "be talking about the same thing" after all.  And there might be a reason for me to suppose we were talking about a man that worked overnight shifts, and I suppose you'll be connecting this analogy soon? 

I dunno, because you work together?



theprof00 on 03 November 2011

If it's really that hard to understand then I must be the kind of crazy that doesn't realize he's crazy.



MetalGear_94 on 03 November 2011
hatmoza said:


You know I was being extremely sarcastic when I said Wonk is on his way to an MVP, right?

Or are you confusing his load of horse manure with F-F' cleaned-up  version with added unbiased commentary?


The winking face implied that

And the added explanation by FF did help.



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Linkzmax on 03 November 2011

theprof00 said:

I think mafia were given a window to tell newbs what to expect, and what to avoid. I don't recall exaclty, but if I said "I think someone told him it was bad" I can guarantee that I meant someone told him it was bad in the first place. ie; at the beginning of the game, ie: briefing. I think he spaced, recognized the positin he was in, and corrected it.

The line where you say "clearly" because none of that is very clear to me, it's definitely interpretable, but I wouldn't say clearly.

Ok, I will agree with you on that. I also don't know anyone who is that paranoid. But I know people who might've said "watch out for X. Don't say X. Stay away form X situations". I just don't know how you're reading these things as me saying them. I feel like you slipped by originally saying "talk" when I said "briefed" and now you're sticking to it. What next, you're going to tell me you don't know what a briefing is? Man, I said it three times, and three times you referred to active discussion. And now I have a headache, because it really is starting to look like you're going to admit to just that, and there's nothing I can do.

And in my experience there has always been a window of several posts before talk ends. That is the norm, and that is more than enough time. Whether it happened right then or earlier doesn't matter. I attempted to hit him too close for comfort, and he evaded it. Well, not entirely, but I can't argue with his reason.

Sigh..

But.. if you're right, and somebody came on and warned him...well..these are the players I remember being on at that point,

Heph, Hat, ST, Trucks, MG (and myself)...there may have been others but I'm too tired to look. adios.

This is also dependent on a flip of scum

I did see you say "brief" several times, but I simply didn't consider limited discussion at the very beginning of day to be a possibility. I have never seen a single mafia thread where it more than a "hello" post(no discussion of strategy) other than full-blown active-day talking.(Only from my allowing it and it being a regular thing on the other site where I still read games) I guess at the time I thought you meant more like scummates gave a brief warning like "avoid 'confused' ". It's my fault for assuming my view might be shared by someone else.

I don't understand how you think I slipped when I had already suggested that I think mafia might not have to send secret messages with my second post. And if you think I slipped as mafia then it's downright laughable. I have made gambles as scum that didn't pay off, but everytime I had a scum role I was meticulous about everything I said. There's zero chance I would mess up like that. And what purpose would it serve, possibly save a newbie scummate who wasn't even close to being lynched yet? 



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theprof00 on 03 November 2011
Linkzmax said:

theprof00 said:

I think mafia were given a window to tell newbs what to expect, and what to avoid. I don't recall exaclty, but if I said "I think someone told him it was bad" I can guarantee that I meant someone told him it was bad in the first place. ie; at the beginning of the game, ie: briefing. I think he spaced, recognized the positin he was in, and corrected it.

The line where you say "clearly" because none of that is very clear to me, it's definitely interpretable, but I wouldn't say clearly.

Ok, I will agree with you on that. I also don't know anyone who is that paranoid. But I know people who might've said "watch out for X. Don't say X. Stay away form X situations". I just don't know how you're reading these things as me saying them. I feel like you slipped by originally saying "talk" when I said "briefed" and now you're sticking to it. What next, you're going to tell me you don't know what a briefing is? Man, I said it three times, and three times you referred to active discussion. And now I have a headache, because it really is starting to look like you're going to admit to just that, and there's nothing I can do.

And in my experience there has always been a window of several posts before talk ends. That is the norm, and that is more than enough time. Whether it happened right then or earlier doesn't matter. I attempted to hit him too close for comfort, and he evaded it. Well, not entirely, but I can't argue with his reason.

Sigh..

But.. if you're right, and somebody came on and warned him...well..these are the players I remember being on at that point,

Heph, Hat, ST, Trucks, MG (and myself)...there may have been others but I'm too tired to look. adios.

This is also dependent on a flip of scum

I did see you say "brief" several times, but I simply didn't consider limited discussion at the very beginning of day to be a possibility. I have never seen a single mafia thread where it more than a "hello" post(no discussion of strategy) other than full-blown active-day talking.(Only from my allowing it and it being a regular thing on the other site where I still read games) I guess at the time I thought you meant more like scummates gave a brief warning like "avoid 'confused' ". It's my fault for assuming my view might be shared by someone else.

I don't understand how you think I slipped when I had already suggested that I think mafia might not have to send secret messages with my second post. And if you think I slipped as mafia then it's downright laughable. I have made gambles as scum that didn't pay off, but everytime I had a scum role I was meticulous about everything I said. There's zero chance I would mess up like that. And what purpose would it serve, possibly save a newbie scummate who wasn't even close to being lynched yet? 

You said "but I'm not sure scum would even be thinking about having to send secret messages to each other."

that is not the same as

"I think mafia might not have to send secret messages"...



theprof00 on 03 November 2011

This isn't going anywhere. I don't have anything concrete on you and everyone has gone silent once again..perhaps savouring the distraction?

Lemme know when you're willing to drop your rule against lynching newbs.



theprof00 on 03 November 2011

Can I get some outside opinions, please (outside of Hat, Linkz, FF) does my argument make sense? Because I feel like I'm being pressed to prove that I'm right.



Linkzmax on 03 November 2011

hatmoza said:

Linkz. I can't ignore this anymore. I was really concerened that Scum would kill me tonight if I bought it up again, but I don't care anymore. And I reassure you all again I'm a simpleton. But why  ... nay how did you just randomly blurt that role exchange out like that? That is baalz [MDJ] having another role, important role that may have been switched? I've been thinking thinking thinking and the only conclusion I can get to is the game mod has told you something. What really makes me believe you had some kind of outside communication is you were talking about baalz maybe allowing scum to talk during the day.

My conclusion, you are either scum who lost a scum mate ... Or a mason group who lost a fellow mason.

If you are mason, I'm truly sorry. But I've literally lost an hour of sleep thinking about this last night. And I have to know.

EDIT [MDJ]

How do you randomly blurt out such obvious falsisms as in http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4283140? I was hoping Baal might once again chime in as he did there,(and for no reason might I add, I've learned my lesson after you got me to mod-confirm a roleblock. Granted here there wasn't really any harm done) and I could then try to see if anyone behaved differently pre/post-modkill. 

It'd be a real shame if you spent so much time thinking only to come up with such a conclusion that is a logical fallacy. MJD flipped Vanilla Townie, so if a role exchange occured then my scum/mason mate is someone else and still alive, and if no exchange occured then there still could be no loss. Unless you think some extreme bastard modding went down and Baal merely covered up the role. In which case, if you think I'm scum you can see my post directed at prof about slipping. Furthermore, it would be utter stupidity to moan about losing a scummate that appears as a townie when revealed. I could see why you'd think I might be upset if I were a mason in that case though, as I would have just lost someone who could confirm me.

No worries for presenting the mason idea. In the hypothetical situation that I was, I could not only eat mafia's kill,(just in case this seems like a hint, I am not Bulletproof) but also my reveal would confirm at least one other player after they claim.(Or give a one for one if there's a counter)



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Linkzmax on 03 November 2011
theprof00 said:

You said "but I'm not sure scum would even be thinking about having to send secret messages to each other."

that is not the same as

"I think mafia might not have to send secret messages"...

I wanted to see who would pick up on that, if anyone. So I didn't make it blatantly obvious by adding a "because I think they might be allowed to talk in the mafia thread".

No argument that it's not a direct translation though.

I suppose you mean lynch moreno? I still see zero reason for suspicion. There's nothing townie either, but there are far better choices. In fact, now that I'm caught up I'm going to finish the vote post that I started.



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