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Forums - General Discussion - Twas the Night Before Christmas-Mafia Round 35

Wonk, you are on your way to another MVP my friend



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

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Where is that sly dog son1x ... and stefl I want to see stefl. We'll begin wrapping up the day as soon I hear from both of them,. Maybe not wrap up the day but I'll place a vote on someone or no one.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

hatmoza said:
Where is that sly dog son1x ... and stefl I want to see stefl. We'll begin wrapping up the day as soon I hear from both of them,. Maybe not wrap up the day but I'll place a vote on someone or no one.

Here I am so what do you want to hear^^

That theres a shitstorm going on?

Well I did not like any of the votes on MDJ - but the most disturbing vote was the one of ST... it was like - hell he has some votes now lets get the whole thing into gears and give him his 4th vote...

Wonk has switched his votes quite often today (I can't really remember if he did that everytime I played with him)

I haven't got to read all the new posts thoroughly tough and since I am planing to go to bed now I don't think I will until sometime tomorrow  - BUT I don't really get why MDJ accumulated all those votes -  well a revenge vote isn't a fine way of responding to a vote but I don't really understand why you voted him in the first place...



Linkzmax said:
theprof00 said:

"About moreno's edit,I don't think he knew what he said looked scummy,nor do I think possible scummates would have pointed it out, causing him to edit it."

ANd this is the only post I could imagine you were responding to, mine:

"Something is very sour about that. You call yourself a noob (and edit like one) but then remove something that looks incriminating. Why? Who briefed you?"

I think someone told him it was bad and from past experience, there aren't many people who would think that. It's generally paranoid people who do. SOoOoOo, if it's true he was briefed, it kind of gives me a list of people who might have said that.

But yes, there you have it.

Oh, so it's simply how you interpreted it. Clearly that line means I think it is possible for scummates to talk. As does the last line of http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286000

I guess I'm of the same thinking as you, I just didn't think anyone would be paranoid(and plain bad) enough to say something like "No, edit that!" or anything similar that would have caused the edit. Something  like "don't do that again" or advice on how to deal with any questions that might come up, sure.

So what makes you think they can talk?

I don't even know where to begin with this post.

I haven't even considered it a possibility. This whole time I was thinking he was told to avoid talking about things, not some in the moment reprimand. Yet when I look back, it's like every post from you is referring to active day-talk. And now I feel like you're being sarcastic in your first line, when I never even gave it a second thought that that was what you were talking about. It's like you're upset at me for some reason.

And then you say we're the same?

wtf has gotten into you linkz?

What makes YOU think they can talk?



unvote

I have a feeling I'll be needing this very soon.



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First off, Linkz. The post prof referred to is very likely what I was remembering; and it's true that you not thinking the edit was a result of a fellow mafia's reprimand doesn't necessarily mean that you don't think they've been talking much. On the other hand, THAT wouldn't mean you don't think they can talk at ALL, so I don't know how you got the idea that prof thought you thought they couldn't.

Other than that, I'm just watching on the sidelines right now with this kerfuffle.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Wonktonodi said:
hatmoza said:
Wonk, I'm suspicious of you for a very specific reason. The ill-timed vote on MDJ. Add to that, you're getting way too defensive about my suspicion. I don't care what you said earlier, or what you said to prof. What I care about now is your bandwagoning and defensive attitude. Honestly, I would have expected you to have grown out of the revenge mentality by now.

This whole thing of you, and especially now, stinks. And yes, you are my top suspect at the moment. Even that explanation to apply pressure doesn't make any sense to me...

I mean listen to yourself. This is essentially what you are saying to ToS above, " Why didn't you see my post earlier? I per-emptively explained myself in a conversation with prof. How come you couldn't catch on to that and reach the same conclusion I have? My vote isn't that suspicious now, right?"

It's it's like you had that excuse ready, or literally pulled it out of your ass when people started to question your vote on MDJ. And it wouldn't have been so bad if you explained it once and moved on. I swear I wouldn't even still be talking about it if you weren't so damn defensive about it. ...


As FF requested the break down.  So fist I'll bring up him calling my vote bandwagoning. Before MDJ had come in and revenge voted hat. Here are some posts I had made.

me quoting MDJ and asking questions http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286552

me saying we should put pressure on MDJ  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286558

me explaining to prof why I think we should put pressure on MDJ   http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286586

and after MDJ's revenge votes my vote saying it was time to put the pressure  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286638

How he or anyone can try and argue my vote is a bandwagon vote is beyond me. I was arguing we put pressure on him and did just what I wanted to do.

 

Next up  his trying to say my apply pressure argument doesn't make sense. When it is pretty clear and sufficiently explained in the posts when I made them. My reasons came and then  when I saw MDJ had posted the vote it was a logical order to things. Hat is accusing me of making the case to put pressure on MDJ so I could latter use them as an excuse to vote. Really?  He thinks I was going to talk about putting pressure on MDJ and not vote for him? I was arguing that there should have been more votes to put pressure yet I am someone just jumping on a bandwagon? I don't know how any sane person could come to that conclusion.

He say that if I"Explained it once and moved on".   That is what I had done. Between the post where I voted and the post where hat suspects me I made one more post on the matter.  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286770

It was at ToS since his defence of me to vette was only on the timing of our votes and had nothing to do with the fact I had been making the points. It was also me saying that I think only two votes isn't good pressure.

I had explained it one and moved on. Yet hat says if I had sone that he wouldn't have been suspicious of me yet after I had moved on he brings it up. Here are the posts where he mentions me.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4287122 mentions he doesn't like my vote

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4287140 asks ToS about timing of out votes and thinks my vote mentioning pressure was copying ToS when I had been posting putting pressure on MDJ for a while and ToS post doesn't even use the word.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4287144 here he knows the the timing of my vote was the same as ToS yet in the post I am quoting he says this.

"I'm suspicious of you for a very specific reason. The ill-timed vote on MDJ"

So we know that's not the reason. He also says I'm too defensive about his suspicion when all I have been doing is pointing out that other players are playing poorly by not reading my post and jumping to bad conclusions. It just so happend hat had to keep pushing and now I am very sure he is scum. Trying to get the attention on me instead of a least one scum buddies who wasn't paying attention before.

He is going for the argument of defensiveness to try and diminish the fact that Vette Tos and himself had all made some errors. Morenoingrato seems to be just bandwagoning on the arguments of hat and latter ToS

After reviewing the thread, I think that Wonk's defense of his vote is, basically, entirely true. 

1.  He DID repeatedly call for putting pressure on Marcus well before TOS voted, and his vote post was entirely consistent with and followed naturally from those posts. 
2.  He posted this response and although it does come off as defensive it also makes important points:  (a) TOS did not display knowledge of Wonk's earlier posts about pressuring Marcus; (b) Wonk did not consider his vote superfluous considering TOS's own vote, and, in fact, was in favor of even more votes to apply pressure.  So it wasn't a post just to be defensive. 
3.  Then hat jumps in, inflicting the additional indignity of accusing Wonk of parroting TOS when if anything the opposite argument could be made -- not that I really think that's the case.  At this point Wonk really starts getting defensive but I'm not sure I blame him, especially with what a character hat is. 

The case against Wonk based on his alleged parroting is completely baseless.  As for his defensiveness, I think that's pretty flimsy due to the provocation he endured, but OTOH he was pretty defensive even in his first response.  It wouldn't be the first time mafia cracked after being criticized for a mistake they didn't make. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:


3.  Then hat jumps in, inflicting the additional indignity of accusing Wonk of parroting TOS when if anything the opposite argument could be made --

That made me think of something very similar.

When ToS said to Wonk, something like "but according to your own words 2 votes shouldn't be enough for pressure"

Hat said "that was...epic"

But really, wonk was making a joke in the first place by mocking ToS, who's argument against wonk is that 2 votes is enough pressure.

 

Interesting that it's all the same players, and that Hat stepped in twice on ToS' side.



theprof00 said:
Linkzmax said:
theprof00 said:

"About moreno's edit,I don't think he knew what he said looked scummy,nor do I think possible scummates would have pointed it out, causing him to edit it."

ANd this is the only post I could imagine you were responding to, mine:

"Something is very sour about that. You call yourself a noob (and edit like one) but then remove something that looks incriminating. Why? Who briefed you?"

I think someone told him it was bad and from past experience, there aren't many people who would think that. It's generally paranoid people who do. SOoOoOo, if it's true he was briefed, it kind of gives me a list of people who might have said that.

But yes, there you have it.

Oh, so it's simply how you interpreted it. Clearly that line means I think it is possible for scummates to talk. As does the last line of http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286000

I guess I'm of the same thinking as you, I just didn't think anyone would be paranoid(and plain bad) enough to say something like "No, edit that!" or anything similar that would have caused the edit. Something  like "don't do that again" or advice on how to deal with any questions that might come up, sure.

So what makes you think they can talk?

I don't even know where to begin with this post.

I haven't even considered it a possibility. This whole time I was thinking he was told to avoid talking about things, not some in the moment reprimand. Yet when I look back, it's like every post from you is referring to active day-talk. And now I feel like you're being sarcastic in your first line, when I never even gave it a second thought that that was what you were talking about. It's like you're upset at me for some reason.

And then you say we're the same?

wtf has gotten into you linkz?

What makes YOU think they can talk?

So what did you mean by "Opposed to Linkz, I think there has been a decent amount of briefing in the mafia thread, and I'm usually only for lynches on day 1 because mafia haven't had time to compose their strategy and it's a good time to get them to trip up all over each other." And if you didn't think it was an "in the moment reprimand," how could you say, "I think someone told him it was bad?"

Which line are you referring to as being sarcastic?

I say we're the same in that I don't think many people would think it was bad and warn moreno in such a way that it would have caused him to edit the post. Where we differ is I don't know anyone who is that freakishly paranoid.

I just hosted a round where mafia could talk during the day, and since there weren't any complaints I think Baal may have taken kindly to the idea.



Final-Fan said:
Wonktonodi said:
hatmoza said:
Wonk, I'm suspicious of you for a very specific reason. The ill-timed vote on MDJ. Add to that, you're getting way too defensive about my suspicion. I don't care what you said earlier, or what you said to prof. What I care about now is your bandwagoning and defensive attitude. Honestly, I would have expected you to have grown out of the revenge mentality by now.

This whole thing of you, and especially now, stinks. And yes, you are my top suspect at the moment. Even that explanation to apply pressure doesn't make any sense to me...

I mean listen to yourself. This is essentially what you are saying to ToS above, " Why didn't you see my post earlier? I per-emptively explained myself in a conversation with prof. How come you couldn't catch on to that and reach the same conclusion I have? My vote isn't that suspicious now, right?"

It's it's like you had that excuse ready, or literally pulled it out of your ass when people started to question your vote on MDJ. And it wouldn't have been so bad if you explained it once and moved on. I swear I wouldn't even still be talking about it if you weren't so damn defensive about it. ...


As FF requested the break down.  So fist I'll bring up him calling my vote bandwagoning. Before MDJ had come in and revenge voted hat. Here are some posts I had made.

me quoting MDJ and asking questions http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286552

me saying we should put pressure on MDJ  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286558

me explaining to prof why I think we should put pressure on MDJ   http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286586

and after MDJ's revenge votes my vote saying it was time to put the pressure  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286638

How he or anyone can try and argue my vote is a bandwagon vote is beyond me. I was arguing we put pressure on him and did just what I wanted to do.

 

Next up  his trying to say my apply pressure argument doesn't make sense. When it is pretty clear and sufficiently explained in the posts when I made them. My reasons came and then  when I saw MDJ had posted the vote it was a logical order to things. Hat is accusing me of making the case to put pressure on MDJ so I could latter use them as an excuse to vote. Really?  He thinks I was going to talk about putting pressure on MDJ and not vote for him? I was arguing that there should have been more votes to put pressure yet I am someone just jumping on a bandwagon? I don't know how any sane person could come to that conclusion.

He say that if I"Explained it once and moved on".   That is what I had done. Between the post where I voted and the post where hat suspects me I made one more post on the matter.  http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4286770

It was at ToS since his defence of me to vette was only on the timing of our votes and had nothing to do with the fact I had been making the points. It was also me saying that I think only two votes isn't good pressure.

I had explained it one and moved on. Yet hat says if I had sone that he wouldn't have been suspicious of me yet after I had moved on he brings it up. Here are the posts where he mentions me.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4287122 mentions he doesn't like my vote

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4287140 asks ToS about timing of out votes and thinks my vote mentioning pressure was copying ToS when I had been posting putting pressure on MDJ for a while and ToS post doesn't even use the word.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4287144 here he knows the the timing of my vote was the same as ToS yet in the post I am quoting he says this.

"I'm suspicious of you for a very specific reason. The ill-timed vote on MDJ"

So we know that's not the reason. He also says I'm too defensive about his suspicion when all I have been doing is pointing out that other players are playing poorly by not reading my post and jumping to bad conclusions. It just so happend hat had to keep pushing and now I am very sure he is scum. Trying to get the attention on me instead of a least one scum buddies who wasn't paying attention before.

He is going for the argument of defensiveness to try and diminish the fact that Vette Tos and himself had all made some errors. Morenoingrato seems to be just bandwagoning on the arguments of hat and latter ToS

After reviewing the thread, I think that Wonk's defense of his vote is, basically, entirely true. 

1.  He DID repeatedly call for putting pressure on Marcus well before TOS voted, and his vote post was entirely consistent with and followed naturally from those posts. 
2.  He posted this response and although it does come off as defensive it also makes important points:  (a) TOS did not display knowledge of Wonk's earlier posts about pressuring Marcus; (b) Wonk did not consider his vote superfluous considering TOS's own vote, and, in fact, was in favor of even more votes to apply pressure.  So it wasn't a post just to be defensive. 
3.  Then hat jumps in, inflicting the additional indignity of accusing Wonk of parroting TOS when if anything the opposite argument could be made -- not that I really think that's the case.  At this point Wonk really starts getting defensive but I'm not sure I blame him, especially with what a character hat is. 

The case against Wonk based on his alleged parroting is completely baseless.  As for his defensiveness, I think that's pretty flimsy due to the provocation he endured, but OTOH he was pretty defensive even in his first response.  It wouldn't be the first time mafia cracked after being criticized for a mistake they didn't make. 

These are valid points, and probably the best argument anyones put against me in a while.

Notice though, I admitted Wonks actions were nothing but an instinct, and I called it so, but it was his defensive attitude that made me drive him up the wall.  If anything his long post made me see he's nothing but a pro-town scavenging.

And now I'm kinda suspicious of trucks.

 



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson