Well, from what I read. In Forza when you hit another car, parts in that area of the car will be affected by the damage, and obviously this varries from car to car. The damage can affect different compenents of the car depending on the speed, location an angle of impact. You can for instance jam your rear tire into the wheel well in Forza 4 (3 as well) and then randomly while you race that one tire will lock up. If you damage different brakes you won't stop in a straight line, damage the steering, or wheel alignment, and your car won't drive straight. Damage does something physically to the cars behavior, it doesn't just make the part x% less efficient.

What GT5 has is a penalty system. Depending on how fast you hit an object, your car will be damaged in that location by an allotted percentage. There are no physics consequences to an impact in GT5, the part of the car that is damaged will simply run x% less efficiently based on the statistics of the crash. For example, if you destroy the allignment of the wheel, you will never jam your tire into the wheel well. GT5 doesn't model SIM damage like that, it just penalizes you based on the impact. Another example is ruining your gearbox. In GT5 what happens is your shift times will simply slow down based on damage. In Forza 4, shifts will become more erradic, and sometimes your car will just refuse to go into gear.

The only physical damage you car do to a car is cosmetic. You can break the door hinges and have someone door open while they race. However this does not physcially affect the cars performance.

Track varients are the number of track types. Forza 4 has over 100, GT5 has something like 70-80. Wikipedia it.

Can you post some source about that???

GT5:Prologue uses a penality system... not GT5.

lol I would ask you to name 7 group c cars, you wouldn't be able to and give the point to GT5 making them even in which case I point out

Me: First of all, according to Wikipedia, Group C race cars were a classification of cars regulation by the FIA ending in 1993. Group C cars are no longer a category of motorsport.

So I should remove this all together. Group A race cars however (touring) are still currently being used in motorsport. I think this itself if a better category to have in the first place, why are you driving an out-dated form of racing?

you gave Forza 4 scores for

Paint editor - which in no way influences a racing simulator

Me: Car culture. These games are more then just sims, many of the designs created in Forza 4 have been used on real world cars. We care comparing the features of the game, and this is a big one for many fans.

Jeremy Clarkson - which has fuck all to do with a racing simulator

Me: Again Car culture. 350 million people watch Top Gear UK. Jeremy Clarkson is also one of the highest paid automotive journalists. Including him, makes this a better game. In fact I got the LE because of the Top Gear Book.

Auto vista - which is just as pointless than listing to Jeremy Clarkson

Me: Again car culture, and I included museum mode so it balances out...geez, do you not appreciate driving or something? Is GT5 just a game for you?

Car Affinities - which as you say is a part of the leveling system but all it does is reward you for using a certain typr of car (wipeout HD did that) but it mans nothing to a racing sim

Me: Zero weight. It adds to the leveling system.

Rewind and Auto break

Me: You include Kart Racing, well guess what...many kids start out with video games before kart racing. Most 20-25 years old motorsport champions got most of their experience from video games. The earlier you start, the better.

Season mode (which is hardly any different form A Spec)

Me: On the contrary, it's very different. Much better organized. It's the difference from playing a series of races, to a tournament.

and no mention of B Spec

Me: Both games have a B spec type of mode. It would be a tie anyway, it's not like B Spec is anything more then a replay where you give orders to your driver. I could count this, but the total difference would still imply both games are still content filled.

given perspective of your own list that you created GT5 blows Forza out the water when it comes down to what matters in a sim, and Forza as the reviews pointed out is a much better GAME!!!

Me: This isn't my list. This is an unsubjective list. Given the fact you can't add to it...means your just incapable of admiting that your wrong. Why is it so important for you for GT5 to be a better game?

When you fail to continue to debate, and resort to self proclaiming GT5, or posting an insulting mocking video, are you telling me that you have no counter? Are you at a loss for words, and choose to take the easy way out because you can't accept defeat? Or maybe you just never actually considered Forza 4 as a great sim, despite the reviews and crtique the game has gotten, and don't want to look foolish so you still self proclaim GT5 as supperior to maintain your sanity?

thanks for that and proving my point this debate is over

Me: exactly. You failed to populate the GT5 portion of the list, and decided instead of attempting to do so you would self proclaim a winner. Well in your heart I guess it is, but that's hardly representative of anything.

Can you post some source about that???

GT5:Prologue uses a penality system... not GT5.

Can you post a source that GT5P uses a penalty system, but GT5 does not?

I'll take a look around, I read about this back when GT5 released, and I don't have it book marked. Don't expect it anytime soon.

it's a tie....... again

Every review pointed the penality system used in GT5:P.

Google five seconds...

http://www.driversanonymous.co.uk/vg_gt5p.asp

"One thing still missing in this latest GT incarnation is car damage. Does that matter to you? It doesn’t bother me, but others find it a big issue and say it detracts from the realism and pampers to the "who needs brakes – I’ll use the barriers and other cars to slow me down" brigade. Well, instead of realistic damage modelling GT5p uses a penalties system – but more on that later."

And for GT5.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Turismo_5

"Gran Turismo 5 is the first game in the franchise to include both mechanical and external damage modelling, including a real-time deformation engine that will process model deformation according to the speed and angle of impact."

And more.

http://www.gtplanet.net/brand-new-real-time-damage-coming-to-gran-turismo-5/

"Right now we are adding a brand new real-time deformation engine that will process according to the speed and angle of impact. But doing this in real-time remains truly complex. We could make it an easier way with pre-damaged models but definitely we don’t want to make it that way."

Sorry  @Michael-5 but you are in this thread just making accusations without knowing about or even having the evidence for support it.

Finally, now you are getting it.

And no childish video. Impressive.