The improved visuals, the added cars on track, the wealth of new race types, the tweaked AI and closer racing, the ferocious sound and superior sense of speed, the even better livery editor, the lot. With Forza 4 Turn 10 has crafted a driving game like no other; it's hands-down this generation's premier racing simulator http://ie.xbox360.ign.com/articles/119/1198556p1.html

IGN said GT5 is a 10/10 Simulator :)

What??? You look like being totally clueless about GT5! Only a few standard cars had those jaggies, the jaggies were a problem related to a bad conversion and actually a bug, that was solved with a patch. All standard cars look like this now (let's go alphabetically):

• Acura HSC Concept '04:

• Acura NSX '04

• Acura NSX Coupe '97

• Acura RSX Type-S

• Alfa Romeo 147 GTA

• Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6

And on and on and on... standard cars are not that much different than FM4 race model.

In fact the replay model is the same for the hot lap in FM4, while during race FM4 uses the race model (that is a different model than the one used in hot lap).

WHAT?????

First, you're a bit oversensitive, the bad in the title refers to race (a bad race, not a a bad looking or else), so there is no reason to bring in GT5 "shitty" cars.

Second: a solid object cast a shadow on you when it is covering the sun from you're point of view, that is you cannot reflect the sun disc if there's a whole building of concrete in your line of sight! That should be obvious to everybody, really.

The "beautiful" "reflection" you see is clearly a texture with prebaked lighting and shadows and it is not a reflection at all. That's lame, I mean, really lame.

Sun disc, while in the shadow of a big building... impossible. A cheap trick, too cheap.

I said before and I and say it again...

The standard cars on GT5 is on pair with the cars in Forza 4... the premium cars is in another level.

After playing both extensively I have to say when GT5 looks good it really looks good. The lighting is real time and looks gorgeous and the premium cars look the biz. Cock pit view is more realistic the game conveys the 'bumpyness' of the roads much better than FM4 and when looking back you can see the back seats and window which FM4 doesn't do.

But overall as a package FM4 looks better. What I did was use the in-game brightness adjustment to the recommended levels (80 on my TV) AND play the game in 'Game Mode' settings. The results made the game look more natural than it's arcadey high contrast look it's associated with and imo noticeably better than GT5. There's much more track side detail, all the cars look good (unlike GT5), the IBL is a real improvement over FM3, it sounds much better than GT5 and the sense of speed is much better as well.

There is something else I really like about Forza over GT and it's that it conveys a sense of excitement that GT simply lacks. GT just looks and feels really plain and clinical and sounds tinny.It's almost like a bunch of scientist made the game rather than game developers. I still think GT5 is the better sim and I have to commend PD for shooting for the moon but by trying to do everything they ended up with a game of two halves. A game that allows you to rally in the dirt and snow, kart racing, different weather effects and time of day....but at the expense of frame rate, track side detail and damn those screen tears! FM games are always a solid 60fps/v-synced/360hz physics update goodness.

WOW a lucid comment after 10 pages... thanks bro.

Pretty surprised how good Forza looks compared to GT. I always assumed GT was superior cuz of all the random hype I see

The use of quincunx and the impact on overall image quality varies game by game.

Wouldnt using low poly environments and low alpha effects also be considered cheating?