nope. even with it current pricedrop GT5 is still out of budget for me.

Well I've never played GT5 so I can't really comment too much regarding it but from the video up above the Forza 4 sounds like it's higher quality sounding and I'm not sure if Forza 4 sound is over done or not seeing as i've only driven low end cars in real life and none of them are in Forza 4.

ethomaz - Your looking for excuses. I played GT5 last month, no spec 2.0 in NA, and the difference from Forza 4 to GT5 is huge

WhiteDevil - I missed that drag time comment. A light enough car with only 170hp can do a quater mile in 14 seconds, but I assume you are talking about a more basic car right? I never checked the time for my quarter miles in Forza 4, so I can't comment on this.

BMW's are nice, but actually the fastest I took a corner was in a mustang. You probably just need practice, 60km is easy on a butterfly onramp, 70km is where I limit in a car like the V6 Mustang, but with more experience I'm sure I could get them to match the speeds I see in Forza 4 and GT5. I honestly feel they did model car behaviour accuratly in Forza 4.

50km/h on a corner... any car can do that. I'm not talking about right angle corners where they say 20 or 30km/h. I'm talking about the more gradual butterfly onramps which say 40km/h. Every car can do 10km/h over the limit, 20km/h over and your taking it fast, and at 70km/h you start to loose traction on bumps. 60km/h in a FWD car because of imperfections and potholes in Canada.

Booh!

1) Doesn't matter how old the game is, a patch won't fix GT5's 30 FPS frame rate drop. Besides, Forza 4 just came out, if your allowing GT5 room for improvement, you have to to the same for Forza 4.

2) Yea the photo's you showed, showed the interior of cars being luminous or dark. Never showed anything about track detail droping that significantly. The difference from Forza 4 to GT5 is huge, you can see it yourself, and you are making excuses now.

3)Forza 4 has 16 car racing like GT5, and has racing during dusk (not night, but realistically you never race at night). Forza 4 also doesn't have pre-rendered backdrops to lighten the load on the CPU. GT5 pixelates shadows, car frames (as shown in the post you quoted), and anything long distance. Forza 4 looks better, you admitted it several times in that post, and you are just giving GT5 excused to look poor.

Last comment. In upscaled 1080p, GT5 only runs 2xAA. Both games run 4xAA in 720p. Check your sources before you comment, your excuses are just starting to be incorrect.

MARCUSDJACKSON - In Both Forza 3 and 4, as well as GT5, the car sound different on the inside then the outside. What are you talking about?

As for sound, I think you need to play the game to understand. It's not about how loud, or clear the sound is. Turn 10 really took the effort to accuratly reflect the engine noises for cars in the game. In GT5 and Forza 3, you rarely hear the high pitched winding noise of a supercharger, or the intake spooling up the air. You just hear the exhaust. Forza 4 really makes an accurate engine sound, and what's best is it's very clear, and very distinguishable between cars. It's insane, in this game I can actually tell what car is driving by the engine noise.

iWarMachine Car interrior shadows in GT5 are much more pixelated then in Forza 4. Anti Aliasing is one advantage 360 has over PS3, and it shows in many games. This is one of them. If you can't see this then you have a PS3.5 because Forza 4 does anti aliasing better then GT5 could ever do on the PS3.

Like I said above, both games do 4xAA in 720p, and 2xAA in 1080p. How efficiently it's done is another story.

1. Utterly false, GT5 improved a lot since launch. On the other hand, I could argue that FM4 used all it had (after all they already had FM2 and FM3 to experiment optimizations).
2. No, it is not light or dark. It is blocky untextured interior or not. And it is not just the interior, the whole car is less detailed, you should see that the yellow car has a different less detailed hood. In race FM4 is just different than hot lap FM4.
3. Only where it can manages 16 cars, the discriminant being the details of the track. As for night racing:
4. From beyond3d: 

Gran Turismo 5 = 1280x720 (4xAA), 1280x1080 (QAA, TAA selectable), 1280x720 (QAA) in 3D mode

Forza Motorsport 4 = 1280x720 (4xAA in time trial, 2xAA otherwise, 4x in car viewing etc.)

It's again the 4xAA, lot of details, but not in race (that is 99% of the game time).

mmmmmm.

I'm not sure wy people here are tryinng to falsify or bring BS into te thread. Here are some actual facts. 

GT5 Version 2.0. ( The latest version ).

1280x720 = 4xMSAA. However not on sadows. 

1280x1080 = 2xQSAA. ( Which is a muddy looking AA result )

3D 1280x720 = 2xQSAA.

Now Digital Foundry makes these factual claims. GT5 2.0 = 1280x720 GT5 drops frames down as low as 38Fps. Yes thats right this is the latest version of GT5. In 720p the game drops 22FPS away from 60FPS. Ontop of that lots of screens tear in their test. This does not happen at night or in rain. whic the situatioon is even worse in. 

DF tested several tracks side by side with Forza 4. Same amount of cars (12), same lighting, and same 720p resolution.

Forza 4's AI cars appeared to be missing some player car reflections. Although the AI cars do have the same level of detail. They are the same model as the player cars. AA is 2xMSAA. mirrors run at 30FPS.

GT5 2.0 AI cars have reflections. Mirrors run at the same framerate as the rest off the screen ( which aims for 60FPS ) 

Forza 4 = no frame loss.. A consistant 60FPS at all times. Also not a single screen tear. 

GT5 2.0 = regular Frame rate dips sometimes for over 4 seconds to as low as 38Fps in 720p. And DF further claim in 1280x1080 the game drops even lower. DF also show regular screen tearing in the top half of GT5 2.0's image.

It would appear where Forza 4 sacrifices mirror FPS and full AI car reflections, GT5 sacrifices FULL screen framerate and Teared screens. 

But even more importantly is wats being rendered. Its almost embarassing running them side by side like DF did. GT5 has NO detail. Sometimes it reminds of those old arcadee racers you used to get where the landscape is rendered but no actual detail rendered on it. 

At times GT5 has a hill. Thats it. When in reality there should be a parking lot, water, tyre walls etc etc. Its like the engiine is losing framerates already that it just had to be cut to run. 

Laguna Seca, Tsukuba and Suzuka were the worst tracks in the comparison video for complete lack of detail in GT5. 

Bearing in mind GT5 2.0 was also taken in its BEST state, meaining premium cars and smoothest running mode ( 720p )

For the other 800 cars and majority of the game GT5 2.0 looks even more less detailed. With undetailed scenery and cars.

Making excuses for a game that has loads of detail missing from its reallife counterpart, infrequent framerate and screen tearing is pretty poor. Ive seen defending before, but this is rediculous.  Its not even like we are  talking dropping frames a little bit and like once or twice a lap. It happens 8 - 10 times a lap and can nearly half for like 4 seconds at times. 

Its inexcusable. Maybe theey sould have either dropped some of the AI car reflections and mirror FPS to 30. ut would that be enoug for GT5 2.0 to hit 60 FPS all the time with no tear? Wat else would GT5 2.0 have to sacrifice to put all that wextra track detail in?

Its a non issue which is technically superior. And what looks consistantly better. 

But I'm sure many will argue a game that is sluggish in comparison at times and less detailed is the better visually. 

VGC does make you laugh sometimes.

Next week 15 FPS is the new KING.

double post.

Quite hilarious how many of the ignorant 360 people that claim "graphics king" a few times per year are getting a dose of their own medicine XD

GT5 > FM4 in graphics. Any sane person knows that ^_^

You could give a good example then, instead of adding more bullshit. First, there is no such things as 2xQSAA, there's only a Quincunx Anti Aliasing algorithm. Second, it is a patented NVidia technology, so let's read what NVidia says about it:

18. What is Quincunx anti-aliasing?
Quincunx AA is a special mode in GeForce3 where two samples are generated per fragment, but 5 samples are averaged together when filtering down, thus increasing the number of effective samples per pixel and giving higher quality than 2 sample AA with only slightly greater cost. The term “Quincunx” comes from the 5-pattern on the side of a die

(Geforce3 FAQ)

Quincunx is a heavier algorithm than 2xAA (which is used by FM4), but it gives better results, especially at higher resolutions (like 1280x1080).

1) Nah man. I played GT5 at launch, and I played it as recently as last month. I haven't played Spec 2.0, but in the 10 months from release to last month, the patches in GT5 have only optimized menu selection.

2) When i looked at it, the car still looked a lot better then GT5, regardless of Time Trial or 16 player racing, and I only noticed the interrior lighting change.

3) Even with 16 cars on the track, Forza 4 still looks a lot better then GT5. Like I said, Forza 4 does make shortcuts (change in graphics from 1 to 16 player), but GT5 does too with pre-rendered graphics. GT5 has night racing, but when FPS drop to as low as 30FPS, is it worth it? Night racing is not very common in real life. It happens, but in a racing game, all I want is racing in mid day or dusk.

4) Yea, but what's the AA when you install Forza 4? Regardless in upscaled 1080p (which is what most people play on) both games run at 2xAA.

/thread.

Forza 4 does have it's flaws, but it's consistanly smooth, and the graphics allways look better. AI car models might lack reflections, but there are no standard cars or FPS drops to ruin the experience.