You're a really monotonous guy, over and over with the same old nitpicked stuff. I like a more dynamic and various approach, like this:

1) Old videos are old, GT5 performances improved vastly since then. Search for some newer video.

2) Uh uh uh, boy... I read "1/1 place" in that Forza screenshot: don't you read my higly informative and interesting posts? You should, really. Forza switches LOD like mad, especially between hot lap and race. Go, find an actual race screenshot of Forza, with its true low LOD.

3) Under heavy conditions (night time, weather, lot of cars, all stuff that you won't find in Forza) GT5 may pixellate some spray effect (no, neither spray effects are present in Forza) for a few frames, however Forza can do this in normal conditions for a few frames:

Uh, I almost forgot: GT5 4xAA vs Forza 2xAA.

??? might want to review your numbers..... I have a toyota corola 2010 and I take turns over 50kph all the time..... now of course those are not 180+ degree turn like the montecarlo track.... but still on most regular turns I'm between 25 and 40 MPH (well at least when the girlfriend is not in the car lol)

and my father has an audi R6 right now but use to have every kind of beamers before that..... handling is not the strongest on BMW since the rear wheel are pushing..... but you can turn faster than a lot of car brands out there.....

hey i just thought i'd add to what was mentioned about which car has the better audio.

one thing that was failed to be mentioned was how a car should sound when your inside the car. the car should not sound the same on the inside as it does on the outside.

how many of you get in your car, close the door, crank it up, realize you need water, get out of your car to put water in it, and hear the car sound as it did when you got in and out of it?

if any body says you do then you've lost it. the car shouldn't sound as it does on the outside as it does on the inside.

so it would seem that GT5 is better at authentically portraying how the car should sound when your in or out of the car so the audio is better on GT5!

Turn 10 have created the most visually stunning racer to grace a console so far, with a fantastic handling model and a wealth of community interaction and options http://mediakick.org/review/forza-motorsport-4

You've to add to the forza 4 compromises the following:

LOD cars differences between replay,in-game,game mode.

30fps Framerate on reflections and mirrors

Lack of shadows in interiors (such as when you get into a tunnel)

Smoke effect not affecting gameplay (like gt5  volumetric smoke does)

I also found the exact same bad shadows of GT5 in Forza 4 interiors and i don't know what resolution changes you're talking about...

The thing about framerate drops, that became much more bearable since 1.13. Try to understand that you're comparing a rock solid framerate in situations where there's no volumetric smoke effects, no rain, no 16 cars, and you've to remember that GT5 runs @1280x1080 pixels w/4xAA... it's rendering 50% more pixels than Forza 4 and twice the amount of AA.

Also, the lighting thing, that comes to the person opinion, because i think that Forza 4 lighting it's to overdone, and the GT5 lighting it's much more realistic, by a mile.

In environments, Forza 4 wins this easily. EASILY.

Cars? that goes to GT5. Autovista it's amazing, miles better than GT5, but in-game, and even in replays, the car detail it's better on GT5.

Gameplay? it's the player's decision.

Gran Turismo 5 = 1280x720 (4xAA) not 1280x1080 (4AA)

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

Yeha it's pretty crazy. I only have it about 1/3 of the way to max and it still shakes the windows.

My poor neighbours must wonder what the hell is going on.

Actually in Forza 4 the sound changes if you are in cockpit mode or on the outside. It changes for every camera angle.

No i'm still playing it. It will be a long time before I finish that game up.

so is F4 sound over done?

look. i trust you to tell me the truth. i've already talked to M5 and i trust him to, but to you which game has the better audio realism for the cars?