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Forums - Gaming - 30FPS vs 60FPS. Can you tell the difference?

 

Can you tell the difference?

Yes, clearly. 233 59.29%
 
Not really. 106 26.97%
 
See results. 54 13.74%
 
Total:393
Michael-5 on 20 October 2011
pezus said:
Michael-5 said:
I read that article, and do not disagree with any of it. However it does not explain something called "The Wagon Wheel Effect." In real life. Information is constantly streamed into our eyes, but out brains translate the data we see very similar to a digital camera.

How light works is that light is both a photon and a wave. Brighter images have a higher count of photons hitting that spot, while dark objects have significantly less photons hitting that source. Fancy confusing stuff aside, a digital camera works by counting the number of photons in a given pixel and assigning that pixel a certain value for light intensity and colour. These pixels are refreshed every x seconds,and this is where the term FPS comes from.

Your retina, like a camera, consistently pick up photons for every cone/rode present. I believe there are million o rods present, but I forget the actual count. Anyway. photons are counted per pixel (cones and rods), and your brain taks this data and produces an image. In fact this data actually comes in upside down and our brains correct this, but that's besides the point.

Your brain takes that steady stream of info, and just like a camera produces a series of frames. Under different lighting conditions, we see different FPS because our brain demands out eyes give objects more/less time for exposure of each frame.

Anyway, simple enough? Good job, you know something about eyes, but our minds obtain vide infrmation just like a digital camera. This is why objects, like a planes propeller sometimes look like they rotate backwards. It's just a trick of the mind, a limitation due to our FPS vision.

That's actually the less likely of two proposed reasons for the effect. Scientists have pointed out that the effect can be seen on non-uniform/non-periodic objects, something like a spinning belt of sandpaper. Therefore, your theory about this effect being because of some "FPS-vision" can't be true.

I thought it was the more accepted reasons for the effect. I have not read or heard of what you are claiming now. I would assume if the effect can be seen on non uniform/periodic objects, it could be because your eye is focusing on one point, and your mind is returning a frame when the object is there to be focusable onto.

Anyway, that previous post is what I've been told in chemisty and 1 psychology course I took (basic one). When you look up the wagon wheel effect, there is no mention of what you are claiming.



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Michael-5 on 20 October 2011
pezus said:
Michael-5 said:

Got an 80% in that course. Even ha time to draw pictures on the exam.

This is how things work, accept it.

Played a PC game yet? If you don't see a difference here, you're doing something wrong: http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html 

I don't see a difference between 30FPS and 60FPS. 15FPS I do, but not the last 2.



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Kynes on 20 October 2011
Michael-5 said:
pezus said:
Michael-5 said:
 

Got an 80% in that course. Even ha time to draw pictures on the exam.

This is how things work, accept it.

Played a PC game yet? If you don't see a difference here, you're doing something wrong: http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html 

I don't see a difference between 30FPS and 60FPS. 15FPS I do, but not the last 2.


I'm sorry but your eyes or your brain don't work properly.



Galaki on 20 October 2011

Guys. You should be looking ahead while driving. Not the other cars' rims.



Pre-order limited edition Blue Slime Condoms

Zkuq on 20 October 2011
Michael-5 said:

Also I talked to one of my bigger PC gaming friends. He said you can cap a game to be limited to 30 or 60FPS, but you can't lock it. If the computer cannot process the image, then the FPS will dip (at least for games). There may be programs that can lock FPS, but you can't do that for games, you can only cap it.

Capping is effectively the same as locking if your PC can handle it, and that's not a problem, at least for older games (and by 'older' I don't mean games released in the 90s).

Michael-5 said:
pezus said:
Michael-5 said:

Got an 80% in that course. Even ha time to draw pictures on the exam.

This is how things work, accept it.

Played a PC game yet? If you don't see a difference here, you're doing something wrong: http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html 

I don't see a difference between 30FPS and 60FPS. 15FPS I do, but not the last 2.

Too bad because there is a difference. But in case you want something that's easier to see, see this.



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ethomaz on 20 October 2011
pezus said:
There's a clear difference, so either you're in denial or something is wrong with your vision.

Also, the theory I mentioned earlier is called "Temporal aliasing theory" and you can even read about it on the Wikipedia page about Wagon-Wheel Effect.

In movies, your theory is correct, but the Temporal aliasing theory is currently stronger when talking about human vision.

I disagree... most people with perfect vision don't see difference... there are nothing wrong with his vision .

It's like 3D... some people don't see it.



Kynes on 20 October 2011

So much denial in this thread...



Michael-5 on 20 October 2011
pezus said:
Michael-5 said:
pezus said:
Michael-5 said:
 

Got an 80% in that course. Even ha time to draw pictures on the exam.

This is how things work, accept it.

Played a PC game yet? If you don't see a difference here, you're doing something wrong: http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html 

I don't see a difference between 30FPS and 60FPS. 15FPS I do, but not the last 2.

There's a clear difference, so either you're in denial or something is wrong with your vision.

Also, the theory I mentioned earlier is called "Temporal aliasing theory" and you can even read about it on the Wikipedia page about Wagon-Wheel Effect.

In movies, your theory is correct, but the Temporal aliasing theory is currently stronger when talking about human vision.

So people who say they see a difference in that stick pigure at 30 and 60FPS. Plecedo effect huh?

I'm not exactly sure what happens in real life, I'm not a scientist studying vision. However that temporal aliasing theory, there is a lot of subjectivity. At the end they say that this effect could be an after effect.

Regardless, for TV, you finally agree with me? Do difference in anything above 30FPS?

Anyway, good debate.



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Michael-5 on 20 October 2011
pezus said:
 

You can cap a game at any FPS and 40 FPS looks better than 30 FPS, 50 better than 40, 60 better than 50 etc...it does not go in cycles. Of course you can't "lock" the FPS, did anyone say (mean) that?

People said you can lock the FPS at a specific value, so it never drops. That is not true. Capping the FPS is different, FPS still drop, when you have a higher cap, you are less likely to drop below the threshold 30FPS.

Also to add to this, forcing the FPS too high, and you will have screen tear, which is noticable, and bad.

I have to go, I'll come back and reply to everything in a bit.

Aside: For 3D, when I played PS3 in 3D I could see both 3D and 2D by changing my focus. So playing in 3D really hurts my eyes.



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x_DMX_x on 20 October 2011
ethomaz said:
Kynes said:
x_DMX_x said:
Zkuq said:
x_DMX_x said:
Here's how you tell the difference between 30FPS&60FPS.
Uncharted 3 is going to run at 60FPS I believe at 1080p.
inFAMOUS(The first one)30FPS native 720p
Compare those two games to see the difference.
OR Call of Duty 4:Modern Warfare its run at 60FPS at 1080p.

No. Just no. The first two Uncharted games run at 720p, not 1080p. And it's been a while since I last played them but IIRC they ran at 30 frames per second. Could be wrong about that, though, and can't confirm it because my Blu-ray drive is dead. And CoD4 runs at sub-720p, but it is supposedly 60 fps.

All in all, you got quite a bit wrong here. :)

Yea I was mistaken but, barely any console games run at a native 1080p.Just because the back of the game case says 1080p doesnt mean its 1080p.The console game that runs perfectly 1080p is WipeoutHD its runs perfectly at 1080p.Other than that I havent seen any other console game run at 1080p.

So compare inFAMOUS 30FPS 720pvs WipeoutHD 60FPS 1080p.

Hmmm it depends on what you consider true 1080p. AFAIK, the vertical resolution is 1080 px, but the horizontal resolution changes dynamically depending on the action, trying to maintain 60 fps. I think it can be "as low" as 1280 px.

Wipeout HD is FULL 1080p (1920x1080) @ 60 fps every time without framedrop... the game had low graphics for PS3 standard but beautiful like Flower (another  FULL 1080p @ 60 fps).

There are other PSN games like them.

I think PSN/PS3 games are the only games that can run at 60 FPS native 1080p without dropping resoluton.

Example:WipeoutHD,Flower,Ridge Racer 7