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Forums - Sony - Sony realizes mistakes, the time is still not right for an all digital console!

An all digital console is possible, if done right. With the Go, Sony didn't add all of the PSP releases onto the store from day one. Also the price differences between the retail and digital copies made people not want to get the latter.



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twesterm said:
LivingMetal said:
twesterm said:

The time is absolutely right for an all digital console, you just have to actually do it right. The Go was a fantastic idea, Sony just did a poor job of doing.

If you want all digital to be a success, just look at Steam. Make every game available day one, make it cheaper, and have constant sales and bundles. From what I remember of the Go, not all games were there, games weren't day one, and games were as expensive or more than the physical copies. It's no surprise the Go failed.

I would love for them or someone else to give digital distribution only another go because when I travel I hate carrying around 10-20 games.


But not all games that are on Steam are only on Steam and not available in retail stores.  Currently, both retail and digital downloads version of games are commercially successful.  So what did Sony do wrong with the Go?  Or are you just hating again?


Did you read my entire post?  I outlined what they did wrong.  Read it again.

@LordtheKnightNight

Yes, most non-indie games do have physical options and that's fine.  I'm just saying a platform like the Vita could go digitial only if they chose and could do digital + retail (would probably be the better option because people like options).  You got me there.

@Mummelmann

I have no idea about Euro prices but in American digital games are generallly less. (though that could be because they're PC games too...)  Even if they're not less at day one, they're still less a few weeks later when they start getting put in bundles or on random sales.  If I look at Steam now I can look at a whole list of recently released games that are less than retail.


I did read your entire post, but it was obvious you were wrong with your points since software of the same titles on Steam still sells well outside of Steam (as I pointed out).  I was hoping you'd have some valid point after that, but you don't.



twesterm said:

The time is absolutely right for an all digital console, you just have to actually do it right. The Go was a fantastic idea, Sony just did a poor job of doing.

If you want all digital to be a success, just look at Steam. Make every game available day one, make it cheaper, and have constant sales and bundles. From what I remember of the Go, not all games were there, games weren't day one, and games were as expensive or more than the physical copies. It's no surprise the Go failed.

I would love for them or someone else to give digital distribution only another go because when I travel I hate carrying around 10-20 games.

I don't think the time will ever be right, you might be OK with having all of your games digital but there are millions of gamers out there who want a games collection that they can physically buy, touch and sell. Broadband speeds still haven't caught up yet either, next generation will see games in the 25gb+ area. Although some will get away with it, others won't, nothing would be more of a buzzkill than buying a game that you really want but having to wait a few days for it to download. Storage space is another problem, especially for portables.

As for the PSP Go, almost every game was on the PS Store, especially the popular ones and I think every game released after the PSP Go was introduced was on the PS Store without fail (minus Kingdom Hearts BBS). The games selection on Steam isn't that great to be honest, there are tonnes of games that I want on PC but they aren't available on Steam, especially older games from the start of the generation, it's missing quite a lot. The only thing I will agree with you on is that some digital PSP games are too expensive, especially new releases (although others are very reasonably priced, some as low as £8, even big names such as Monster Hunter and GTA). XBL and PSN are worse when it comes to digital games, their pricing is rediculous, new releaseas are £45 - £55.



LivingMetal said:
twesterm said:
LivingMetal said:
twesterm said:

The time is absolutely right for an all digital console, you just have to actually do it right. The Go was a fantastic idea, Sony just did a poor job of doing.

If you want all digital to be a success, just look at Steam. Make every game available day one, make it cheaper, and have constant sales and bundles. From what I remember of the Go, not all games were there, games weren't day one, and games were as expensive or more than the physical copies. It's no surprise the Go failed.

I would love for them or someone else to give digital distribution only another go because when I travel I hate carrying around 10-20 games.


But not all games that are on Steam are only on Steam and not available in retail stores.  Currently, both retail and digital downloads version of games are commercially successful.  So what did Sony do wrong with the Go?  Or are you just hating again?


Did you read my entire post?  I outlined what they did wrong.  Read it again.

@LordtheKnightNight

Yes, most non-indie games do have physical options and that's fine.  I'm just saying a platform like the Vita could go digitial only if they chose and could do digital + retail (would probably be the better option because people like options).  You got me there.

@Mummelmann

I have no idea about Euro prices but in American digital games are generallly less. (though that could be because they're PC games too...)  Even if they're not less at day one, they're still less a few weeks later when they start getting put in bundles or on random sales.  If I look at Steam now I can look at a whole list of recently released games that are less than retail.


I did read your entire post, but it was obvious you were wrong with your points since software of the same titles on Steam still sells well outside of Steam (as I pointed out).  I was hoping you'd have some valid point after that, but you don't.

Just because something sells well outside of Steam doesn't mean digital only is automatically crap, it just means it sold well outside of Steam.

If I say since Angry Birds sold 65 million + copies then obviously digital download only is the best platform?  No, that's stupid.

Like it or not, the Go was a failure and that wasn't digital only's fault, it was all Sony.  Digital only can work, you just have to actually support it and do it right.  As I mentioned, Steam is a great example.  People buy games constantly through Steam because they're easy and often cheaper.  True, you can buy most of those games in physical form, but that doesn't change the fact that Steam works really really well. 

Especially with portables, people like not having to deal with carrying around a bunch of games.  Things like the iPhone are great because you have everything at your fingertips.  With the poke of a virtual button, I have 30 or so games at my finger tips.  If I want that experience with a DS or PSP, I have to carry around a bunch of cartridges or discs.  People like convenience and digital download only can be incredibly convenient.



brendude13 said:
twesterm said:

The time is absolutely right for an all digital console, you just have to actually do it right. The Go was a fantastic idea, Sony just did a poor job of doing.

If you want all digital to be a success, just look at Steam. Make every game available day one, make it cheaper, and have constant sales and bundles. From what I remember of the Go, not all games were there, games weren't day one, and games were as expensive or more than the physical copies. It's no surprise the Go failed.

I would love for them or someone else to give digital distribution only another go because when I travel I hate carrying around 10-20 games.

I don't think the time will ever be right, you might be OK with having all of your games digital but there are millions of gamers out there who want a games collection that they can physically buy, touch and sell. Broadband speeds still haven't caught up yet either, next generation will see games in the 25gb+ area. Although some will get away with it, others won't, nothing would be more of a buzzkill than buying a game that you really want but having to wait a few days for it to download. Storage space is another problem, especially for portables.

As for the PSP Go, almost every game was on the PS Store, especially the popular ones and I think every game released after the PSP Go was introduced was on the PS Store without fail (minus Kingdom Hearts BBS). The games selection on Steam isn't that great to be honest, there are tonnes of games that I want on PC but they aren't available on Steam, especially older games from the start of the generation, it's missing quite a lot. The only thing I will agree with you on is that some digital PSP games are too expensive, especially new releases (although others are very reasonably priced, some as low as £8, even big names such as Monster Hunter and GTA). XBL and PSN are worse when it comes to digital games, their pricing is rediculous, new releaseas are £45 - £55.


With a console, I think DD is harder because 25gigs can suck to download but for portables, it's *much* easier. 

And what?  What games from this generation aren't on Steam?  I know there are some that exist, but I wouldn't say a lot.  When looking for Steam games also keep in mind two things-- 1) when did Steam start becoming really big and 2) who published the games you're looking for?

Also, if you're looking for older games, totally beside the point but look at Good Old Games.  It's a great website.

Finally, I agree, a lot of people do like having physical games but with the way things are going, that's just going to eventually change.  People use to love collecting manuals but look at where we're at with manuals now.  Just 10 years ago they use to be these awesome color books, some even spiral bound they're so large.  Now, they're often 4-6 black and white pages and sometimes just an insert.



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twesterm said:

The time is absolutely right for an all digital console, you just have to actually do it right. The Go was a fantastic idea, Sony just did a poor job of doing.

If you want all digital to be a success, just look at Steam. Make every game available day one, make it cheaper, and have constant sales and bundles. From what I remember of the Go, not all games were there, games weren't day one, and games were as expensive or more than the physical copies. It's no surprise the Go failed.

I would love for them or someone else to give digital distribution only another go because when I travel I hate carrying around 10-20 games.


That can't work for Sony or any company in their position though.  Steam works (and outside US it's not always the cheapest) because it is a single store.  Valve are running their own store and can do what they want.  Sony (and MS or Nintendo for that matter) are in a different position.  They must have retail copies too and the retailers pressure them for equality of price - they'd push back if it was always cheaper on PSN or XBLA.

I agree you can have a digitial console, but none of the big suppliers are in a position to offer one easily due to other channels and arrangements.

I guess my view is what Sony is saying is that the time isn't right for Sony to have an all digital console.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

twesterm said:
brendude13 said:

I don't think the time will ever be right, you might be OK with having all of your games digital but there are millions of gamers out there who want a games collection that they can physically buy, touch and sell. Broadband speeds still haven't caught up yet either, next generation will see games in the 25gb+ area. Although some will get away with it, others won't, nothing would be more of a buzzkill than buying a game that you really want but having to wait a few days for it to download. Storage space is another problem, especially for portables.

As for the PSP Go, almost every game was on the PS Store, especially the popular ones and I think every game released after the PSP Go was introduced was on the PS Store without fail (minus Kingdom Hearts BBS). The games selection on Steam isn't that great to be honest, there are tonnes of games that I want on PC but they aren't available on Steam, especially older games from the start of the generation, it's missing quite a lot. The only thing I will agree with you on is that some digital PSP games are too expensive, especially new releases (although others are very reasonably priced, some as low as £8, even big names such as Monster Hunter and GTA). XBL and PSN are worse when it comes to digital games, their pricing is rediculous, new releaseas are £45 - £55.


With a console, I think DD is harder because 25gigs can suck to download but for portables, it's *much* easier. 

And what?  What games from this generation aren't on Steam?  I know there are some that exist, but I wouldn't say a lot.  When looking for Steam games also keep in mind two things-- 1) when did Steam start becoming really big and 2) who published the games you're looking for?

Also, if you're looking for older games, totally beside the point but look at Good Old Games.  It's a great website.

Finally, I agree, a lot of people do like having physical games but with the way things are going, that's just going to eventually change.  People use to love collecting manuals but look at where we're at with manuals now.  Just 10 years ago they use to be these awesome color books, some even spiral bound they're so large.  Now, they're often 4-6 black and white pages and sometimes just an insert.

For portables there is the problem of storage though, for the PS Vita you are going to need to buy expensive memory stick that can only hold a game or two, it really defeats the object of buying one really. Built-in memory would be too expensive and even if they did do that, you wouldn't be able to have that many games on there at once, 10 max.

Gears of War 1 and Resident Evil 4 (released '07) are the only ones that come to mind, there are a lot of games I wanted to get on PC that weren't on the list when I typed them in though, some of them are forgivable because they aren't from this generation but the others should be, can't recall them though.

I also wanted to buy Crysis 2 but I remember that got pulled, obviously a problem with EA. I'll check out "Good Old Games" anyway.

I think collecting manuals is a lot different, collection manuals is nowhere near on the same level as having a physical copy of a game, a lot of the manuals in the games I have bought this gen are large, I've never seen one with only a few pages.



yea it was a strange move.

the only real benefit is pricing being cheaper, thats why i'd do all digital. 



brendude13 said:
twesterm said:
brendude13 said:

I don't think the time will ever be right, you might be OK with having all of your games digital but there are millions of gamers out there who want a games collection that they can physically buy, touch and sell. Broadband speeds still haven't caught up yet either, next generation will see games in the 25gb+ area. Although some will get away with it, others won't, nothing would be more of a buzzkill than buying a game that you really want but having to wait a few days for it to download. Storage space is another problem, especially for portables.

As for the PSP Go, almost every game was on the PS Store, especially the popular ones and I think every game released after the PSP Go was introduced was on the PS Store without fail (minus Kingdom Hearts BBS). The games selection on Steam isn't that great to be honest, there are tonnes of games that I want on PC but they aren't available on Steam, especially older games from the start of the generation, it's missing quite a lot. The only thing I will agree with you on is that some digital PSP games are too expensive, especially new releases (although others are very reasonably priced, some as low as £8, even big names such as Monster Hunter and GTA). XBL and PSN are worse when it comes to digital games, their pricing is rediculous, new releaseas are £45 - £55.


With a console, I think DD is harder because 25gigs can suck to download but for portables, it's *much* easier. 

And what?  What games from this generation aren't on Steam?  I know there are some that exist, but I wouldn't say a lot.  When looking for Steam games also keep in mind two things-- 1) when did Steam start becoming really big and 2) who published the games you're looking for?

Also, if you're looking for older games, totally beside the point but look at Good Old Games.  It's a great website.

Finally, I agree, a lot of people do like having physical games but with the way things are going, that's just going to eventually change.  People use to love collecting manuals but look at where we're at with manuals now.  Just 10 years ago they use to be these awesome color books, some even spiral bound they're so large.  Now, they're often 4-6 black and white pages and sometimes just an insert.

For portables there is the problem of storage though, for the PS Vita you are going to need to buy expensive memory stick that can only hold a game or two, it really defeats the object of buying one really. Built-in memory would be too expensive and even if they did do that, you wouldn't be able to have that many games on there at once, 10 max.

Gears of War 1 and Resident Evil 4 (released '07) are the only ones that come to mind, there are a lot of games I wanted to get on PC that weren't on the list when I typed them in though, some of them are forgivable because they aren't from this generation but the others should be, can't recall them though.

I also wanted to buy Crysis 2 but I remember that got pulled, obviously a problem with EA. I'll check out "Good Old Games" anyway.

I think collecting manuals is a lot different, collection manuals is nowhere near on the same level as having a physical copy of a game, a lot of the manuals in the games I have bought this gen are large, I've never seen one with only a few pages.


Well, the memory sticks are only expensive because Sony makes them expensive.  You can get a 32gig flash card for under $50 which is plenty of space, especially if you can redownload games as necessary or even store them locally on a computer.

What physical manuels have you seen that are large this gen?  They're pretty rare now-a-days.  I know for a fact publishers keep those as small as possible because it saves pennies on every copy sold (which adds up to a lot when you're talking millions of copies).

Is Gears of War Games for Windows Live (I ask only because I really don't know and I'm curious)?  If so, are any of those on Steam?



Have any of you heard of THE RAZOR BLADE BUSINESS MODEL?  Do you understand how it works?

 

That is a major reason None of you should ever want a digital distribution only full video game system.