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Forums - Politics - Protest footage in NY, SHOCKING!

Here is an article of the prospects of the protest spreading:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/02/business/wall-street-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



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mrstickball said:
HappySqurriel said:

While it may seem ironic that they’re living off of the wealth and privilege provided by a global capitalist system and calling for the end of this system it really isn’t surprising; because in all socialist/communist systems there is always a parasitic elite class who are above the rules they force on the masses, and these protestors envision themselves as these elite (and/or believe that the lifestyle of the elite in these systems is representative of the lifestyle of the masses).

You are correct in saying that the majority of these protestors are incredibly idiotic about their goals.

Here are a few pictures of signs by 'the 99%' (taken from another forum):

If these are the kinds of people protesting, then America is just about doomed. I am sure Mafoo is laughing his butt off in New Zealand right now.. No one cares for personal responsibility nor accountability. It is not Wall Street's fault if you pick a useless career in writing or some other bull-crap, and can't find a job because there are millions of others out there with the same degree, and no jobs.

Well, looks like Teabonics on the left to me.  Apparently people don't bother to proofread their signs they use in protests.

What needs to be understood, is that, you feel (and can demonstrate) that you go the short end of the stick, and feel that there is an elite class who increasingly gets ahead, and you don't, then it doesn't matter how much you speak about "living off the wealth and privilege provided a global capitalist system".  Hard to say anyone lives off it, when you have a mound of debt for the "honor" of buying lottery tickets.

I, for example, am sitting on piles of student loan debt, and wonder if I should drive anywhere.  Who am I supposed to show graditute do for this?  This student loan debt can't be discharged as any other.  People have been sold lots and lots of lies, and now the bill comes due.  

As of now, what isn't a "useless career"?  Is everyone supposed to go into nursing or become a truck driver?  That and engineering were shown as three "hot job" categories out there.  You know what?  How about allowing bankruptcy to cause student loans going away, and not bailing out colleges, and then see what happens next?  A lot of colleges would close.  People pick useless careers because loans are given out for them.



thespian for example is a "useless" job. don't know about america but in germany it's just a well known fact that, if you aren't lucky to become a "star" and earn millions or enough to have a nice live, you will just earn like 900€ with it. and if people like me who don't care about this job know it, then people who study this should know this or not?

i see the problem with the costs in america to go to college but not if people are in dept and what are they doing? buying a house and moaning about their depts after that? that makes no sense...

noone on this planet has to buy a house if he can't afford it just because he has a college degree. and they all should never forget that they still live better than 90% of the rest of the world. they should become buddhists and learn to get energy out of other things than money.



crissindahouse said:
thespian for example is a "useless" job. don't know about america but in germany it's just a well known fact that, if you aren't lucky to become a "star" and earn millions or enough to have a nice live, you will just earn like 900€ with it. and if people like me who don't care about this job know it, then people who study this should know this or not?

i see the problem with the costs in america to go to college but not if people are in dept and what are they doing? buying a house and moaning about their depts after that? that makes no sense...

noone on this planet has to buy a house if he can't afford it just because he has a college degree. and they all should never forget that they still live better than 90% of the rest of the world. they should become buddhists and learn to get energy out of other things than money.

In the US, thespians and writers are the same as in Germany. If anything, its magnified because we have 4 times the number of people attempting to become the next Brad Pitt or JK Rowling.

One issue with our student loan system is that the government now essentially controls all loans. Because of this, there is no forgiveness of debt if you go bankrupt - unlike all other forms of loans, the government forces you to pay out. Their rage, in this case, should be directed at the government for taking over the market, and not capitalists, because capitalists would be OK with the bankruptcy.

As you said, no one should take on this kind of debt and then complain about it. They knew what they were doing going in, and now that they are stuck with a useless house or 'career', they want a re-do, and can't get it because they didn't understand how the system worked. Sorry, but in my life, I didn't go to college.. I took all that money and invested it. Comparatively, my life is much better. If they wanted a real career, therere are litterally MILLIONS of jobs in the country that cost very little to get into and learn - all of which earn great incomes of $3,000/month or greater. Problem is, these jobs require hard work, or relocation, which is something most spoiled brats do not want to do.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

richardhutnik said:

Well, looks like Teabonics on the left to me.  Apparently people don't bother to proofread their signs they use in protests.

What needs to be understood, is that, you feel (and can demonstrate) that you go the short end of the stick, and feel that there is an elite class who increasingly gets ahead, and you don't, then it doesn't matter how much you speak about "living off the wealth and privilege provided a global capitalist system".  Hard to say anyone lives off it, when you have a mound of debt for the "honor" of buying lottery tickets.

I, for example, am sitting on piles of student loan debt, and wonder if I should drive anywhere.  Who am I supposed to show graditute do for this?  This student loan debt can't be discharged as any other.  People have been sold lots and lots of lies, and now the bill comes due.  

As of now, what isn't a "useless career"?  Is everyone supposed to go into nursing or become a truck driver?  That and engineering were shown as three "hot job" categories out there.  You know what?  How about allowing bankruptcy to cause student loans going away, and not bailing out colleges, and then see what happens next?  A lot of colleges would close.  People pick useless careers because loans are given out for them.


There are many educational fields that are structured in a way that there is one post grad position for every 10 (or more) graduates, there is one teaching/researching position for every 10 (or more) post grad students, and the only jobs that exist in these fields are in academia; and these academic positions are strictly based on teaching new students in the field and/or writing books that you force these students to read. In other words, these fields are gigantic Ponzi schemes which are fed through borrowed money backed by the government and the lies of countless people.

With so many intelligent, hard working people, and over educated people in the system the lack of jobs has pushed many of these failed academics to get more education; and more often than not these individuals choose to become lawyers. This has once again created a situation where there is one working law position for every 10 (or more) graduates, and one particularly wealthy lawyer for every working lawyer.

Now, these dramatically over educated individuals decide to "create" a "career" for themselves and this typically involves them becoming community organizers, starting not-for-profits or non-governmental agencies, or becoming lobbyists; and their "job" effectively becomes petitioning the government to give them taxpayer dollars to be paid well with a fancy title and do absolutely no good for anyone.

These community organizers and lobbyists are perfect examples of worthless careers.



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HappySqurriel said:
mrstickball said:


I do have some sympathy for these individuals, and I can empathize with the position they have been put in; after all, they’re coming face to face with the reality that they have been lied to throughout their entire life and this has been primarily been done by the individuals they looked up to. Unfortunately, since understanding this would require significant changes to their entire value and belief system, these individuals are now looking for a villain who has stolen their fairy tale ending.

The real problem these individuals are facing is what I would call the parasite killing the host ...

Effectively, there is a portion of the economy that is driven by individuals making choices to buy goods and or services because they want them; not because they’re forced to have them or they’re afraid of the consequences of not having these goods and/or services. This is the portion of the economy I would call the host because it is the real living portion of the economy.

On top of that there is a portion of the economy that  provides goods and/or services which (in the long run) either improve the productivity of the host economy or minimize the damage of real world risks to individuals. Examples of this are companies like insurance companies, health-care, education, police/fire departments and so on. This is the portion of the economy I would call the symbiote because, while it lives off of the host economy, it provides value that is equal to or greater than its cost to the economy.

Many of these individuals who can't find jobs are in parasitic fields, and there are no jobs because there are no more spots available to suck the life-blood of the economy from.


I chopped a few paragraphs out to save space and focus on the parasite problem. I had read this yesterday, and was going to do a snap reply regarding, "What about people going into retirement?" and that issues faced.  But, then I have realized there is a BIG parasite problem.  A consumer dirven economy, with a focus on driving people to buy, buy, buy stuff, in order to keep the engines of commerce going, combined with making it said to be purely competitive, where I get mine, and forget everyone else, is producing parasite mentality of consumption, and lack of serving and solving real problems, for a number of reasons.

I had thought last night, about the whole "Zombie apocalypse" thing going about today, and the Romero model for the zombie and I am think that is symbolic of what is going on now.  American culture is full of people who expect to get rich, "live the good life" and so on, just because.  It is a virus mentality of a consumer, driven by get, get, get, where people are pampered from a young age and told they are "special".  Basic laws of economy are, if you want to have more, you bring more to the market.  You serve and you solve.  You bring goods and services.  But, do we have that today?  Nope.  The idea is to "stimulate" and somehow the Keynesian sugar rush will make everything wonderful.  Well, it isn't.  Instead, we produce more and more zombies, in the form of individuals and organizations who are out for their own, and getting more.  And there is the debt bomb also.  And factor in everyone for themselves, and you have zombies.

Society would be a lot better if people learned how to properly serve and see problems, and work to solve them, rather than ending up needy beggers.



crissindahouse said:
thespian for example is a "useless" job. don't know about america but in germany it's just a well known fact that, if you aren't lucky to become a "star" and earn millions or enough to have a nice live, you will just earn like 900€ with it. and if people like me who don't care about this job know it, then people who study this should know this or not?

i see the problem with the costs in america to go to college but not if people are in dept and what are they doing? buying a house and moaning about their depts after that? that makes no sense...

noone on this planet has to buy a house if he can't afford it just because he has a college degree. and they all should never forget that they still live better than 90% of the rest of the world. they should become buddhists and learn to get energy out of other things than money.

In America, colleges offer training in the theater, the government backs the loans to get it, people are sold that college is their golden ticket GUARANTEED (guaranteed is implied STRONGLY.  I had one person teaching at a college tell me he knew NO ONE who didn't have a job who graduated), and then you sign up and the government then puts you into an indentured servitude program that doesn't allow you to get out of it, if it fails.

And owning a house is part of "the American dream" and of course politicians want to make sure EVERYONE owns a home, whether they can afford it or not, because that "stimulates" the economy.  And the home is seen as an "investment", because OBVIOUSLY house prices increase.  And then lenders, backed by cheerleading by politicians, give out loans.  And then they offload the loan on some other sucker and get rich.



Its difficult for the police. Sometimes you have to blame the people giving the orders not the poor ignorant foot soldiers.

Count yourselves lucky. In Britain a bloke got killed by a police officer a couple of years ago and he was just trying to get home near some protests.

Thankfully after a whole load of pressure from the public and the media the police were forced to have an inquiry and the police officer will now face trial.

Its still better than third world countries.



Just because they were peaceful doesn't mean they have the right to be disrespectful and clog up streets. If police come in and say move back... move the fuck back. If you choose to stand there being belligerent... well prepare to get thrown down and arrested.

I didn't see anything I'd decry as foul. People have the right to protest within the boundaries of the law. You must always show police respect.. unless of course they are truly handling themselves outside of their boundaries. I did not see that here at any point and time.



Still amazed how different opinions are happening in this thread, it's hard to believe how some people think..