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Forums - General - Eat Your Heart Out Einstein: Particles Faster than the Speed of Light Dicovered

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I'm studying physics in the university. Does this mean my syllabus will finally change after so many decades?



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sapphi_snake said:
Narishma said:
Or it could just be a measurement error. Better to wait until it's confirmed by others before resorting to the stupid titles.

It's exciting seeing science in action regardless. No need to resort to stupid posts.


How was my post stupid? Science may be exciting, but that doesn't justify using ridiculous titles like your or the one of the article you posted.



Dr.Grass said:
Zkuq said:
Dr.Grass said:
Zkuq said:
It's about time if true. I fear this is just an error of some sort but I do hope it's real anyway.

WHY?

Which part do you refer to?

Why it's about time? Because it's exciting and could finally bring us forward. I'm not a top scientist so maybe I'm missing something but it seems that in the last few decades, nothing big has really happened.

Why I fear this is an error? Because it would be boring and we would be where we started.

Well if the speed of light is indeed a universal speed limit then your ''about time'' statement makes no sense. Meaning that you've actually believed all this time that Einstein was wrong.

People just like sensational stories, which is why this one is getting so much attention. My money is on you having this motivation - sensationalism. The fact is the universe has its laws and they are independent of what you believe, therefore 'hoping' for something is meaningless.

Sorry for shitting on you, this extends to all people who are going ape-shit about this story but don't understand relativity.

I might be losing popularity points along the way, but someone has to bring some sanity to these discussions.

Well, I really know almost anything of the theory of relativity but yes, it's a bit hard to believe nothing could be faster than light under any conditions. I do believe that the theory of relativity is an excellent theory of... lots of stuff, but I'm sure even it has its limits - limits we may even have yet to discover. But that's why I study physics, to understand stuff better and maybe some day be a part of finding something new and exciting. I certainly don't know a lot yet but hey, I just started my second year of studies.



I knew it!! Star Trek was right!



binary solo said:
 If you are travelling through a wormhole then you appear to be travelling faster than light, because you're going from A to B instantaneously. But you are not actually traversing the intervening space, you are bypassing it. So you are not really travelling faster than light.

 

yeah thats similiar too what Dr Brain Cox (think he is a Doctor) said 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15034852 skip to 2.30.

 

only he was suggesting other demensions and stuff.



correct me if I am wrong
stop me if I am bias
I love a good civilised debate (but only if we can learn something).

 

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Werekitten summed it up perfectly. Lets see whats going to happen now. It would be interesting if the observed effect was real, would lead to a lot interesting conclusions and discoveries.



Zkuq said:
Dr.Grass said:
Zkuq said:
Dr.Grass said:
Zkuq said:
It's about time if true. I fear this is just an error of some sort but I do hope it's real anyway.

WHY?

Which part do you refer to?

Why it's about time? Because it's exciting and could finally bring us forward. I'm not a top scientist so maybe I'm missing something but it seems that in the last few decades, nothing big has really happened.

Why I fear this is an error? Because it would be boring and we would be where we started.

Well if the speed of light is indeed a universal speed limit then your ''about time'' statement makes no sense. Meaning that you've actually believed all this time that Einstein was wrong.

People just like sensational stories, which is why this one is getting so much attention. My money is on you having this motivation - sensationalism. The fact is the universe has its laws and they are independent of what you believe, therefore 'hoping' for something is meaningless.

Sorry for shitting on you, this extends to all people who are going ape-shit about this story but don't understand relativity.

I might be losing popularity points along the way, but someone has to bring some sanity to these discussions.

Well, I really know almost anything of the theory of relativity but yes, it's a bit hard to believe nothing could be faster than light under any conditions. I do believe that the theory of relativity is an excellent theory of... lots of stuff, but I'm sure even it has its limits - limits we may even have yet to discover. But that's why I study physics, to understand stuff better and maybe some day be a part of finding something new and exciting. I certainly don't know a lot yet but hey, I just started my second year of studies.

So you don't understand one of the most incredible scientific theories ever, or rather don't know anything about it - Yet you want to bring your intuition into the game and make that a factor? You're going to have a big problem with quantum mechanics then - it's not intuitive at all.

" I do believe that the theory of relativity is an excellent theory of... lots of stuff"

>_>

If you're really studying physics then you should have learnt to let go of your intuition long ago and not trust your intuitive thoughts as they arise from subjective memory.



WereKitten said:

binary solo said:
I suppose some of you might not know this but "time travel" was proven to be possible about 10 years ago via a phenomenon known as quantum tunneling.

A german solid state physicist shot a beam of electrons at a sold block of material (through which the electrons could not pass physically). The information he was transmitting was Mozart's 12th(?) Symphony. What happened was the electrons basically went through little wormholes in order to get past the obstacle. What was the result? The electrons arrived at the receiver on the other side of the block BEFORE they left the transmitter.

So these neutrinos could have been doing the same thing.

(snip)

1) quantum tunnelling means that the particles "tunnel" through a potential (think energy) barrier, for example appearing on the other side of a block of material that they could not traverse in classical dynamics because they have not enough energy. It is routinely used in many microelectronic devices and has nothing to do with wormholes or tunneling through spacetime per se. Actually the simplest formulation of quantum tunneling is done with stationary solutions to the Schroedinger eq., meaning that we know there's a certain probabilty of finding the particle on the other side of the barrier it shouldn't be able to pass, but we don't study how it moved to reach that zone.

Thus, it's really exciting news, but far from being accepted as a relativity violation or easily explained by known phenomena such as quantum tunneling.

Well it can be explained by known (or theorised) phenomena. If a neutrino leaps between 2 points via wormhole rather than travelling between 2 points then if that leap is far enough, or a big enough number of little leaps happen, simply grossly measuring time between very distant points A and B makes it look like the particles are travelling faster than light when they are not. But to show FLT you have to know what the neutrinos are doing for that whole 732km journey to make sure they aren't cheating by taking a few leaps.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Dr.Grass said:

So you don't understand one of the most incredible scientific theories ever, or rather don't know anything about it - Yet you want to bring your intuition into the game and make that a factor? You're going to have a big problem with quantum mechanics then - it's not intuitive at all.

" I do believe that the theory of relativity is an excellent theory of... lots of stuff"

>_>

If you're really studying physics then you should have learnt to let go of your intuition long ago and not trust your intuitive thoughts as they arise from subjective memory.

Science doesn't evolve if you want to stick to your old theories until the very end. Until I have enough knowledge not to do so, I'm going to doubt lots of things.

A question: Isn't a lot of the theory of relativity based on the assumption that causality works, ie. cause comes before consequence? How's that about intuition? Please correct me if I'm wrong (or ignore me if you think correcting me isn't worth it :P), like I said, I only recently started my second year so I'm really at the basics right now.



binary solo said:

Well it can be explained by known (or theorised) phenomena. If a neutrino leaps between 2 points via wormhole rather than travelling between 2 points then if that leap is far enough, or a big enough number of little leaps happen, simply grossly measuring time between very distant points A and B makes it look like the particles are travelling faster than light when they are not. But to show FLT you have to know what the neutrinos are doing for that whole 732km journey to make sure they aren't cheating by taking a few leaps.


Unless it's quantified properly in a theoretical framework (including how, why, when, where and what kind of wormholes should appear only for neutrinos and then supposedly disappear) then it's not an explanation. At best it's a temptative theory, at worst it's just magical thinking: simply calling "wormholes" as soon you need to thwart the c limit is not much more of an explanation than invoking fairy dust :)

You have to understand that wormholes (as nice a plot device in sf as they can be) are an "out there" hypothesis and before they are seriously considered there are much more mundane corrections that can be thought of relativistic quantum field theory to allow for superluminal neutrinos. And that the probelm in theoretical physics is not coming up with fascinating and weird ideas, but actually demonstrating that they fit reality well enough.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman