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Forums - General - Animal testing is barbaric!

lestatdark said:
Player1x3 said:
lestatdark said:
Player1x3 said:
Ps3 said:
Jay520 said:
Animals are disgusting IMO


They are not! In a way, slavery also still exists in the world today! Horses and other animals are used as slaves, and I believe that's a form of animal testing. They're testing these animals will, and one day these animals are going to flip out on mankind. It's really sad seeing a horse pull a huge wagon with some sick idiot whipping him with a steel rod, and sometimes even stabbing them with those star things on the ends of their boots.


Animals are beings of lower biological order, their life isnt as important as a human life. Would you rather have all the medical drugs tested on humans and have them dead sickened?

Lower biological order? In whose's scale, yours? 

Because if you're talking in strict biological terms, humans are pretty low on the biological scale. We're not macro-producers nor are we on the top of any kind of food chain (as there are animals that hunt humans for food). If you're talking about rational order, then that has nothing to do with any kind of biological measure. 

Also, funny thing regarding humans, we're one of the few species in the biological kingdom that has no biological function for any other species. Kinda like locusts but able to do 2+2 in our brains.

Intelligence + dominance+ power+ reason + compassion + advancement, top on food chain (yes, humans can hunt down and kill any animal of any species they want) = humans are most valueable living beings on planet, and are thus superior to animals.

Human arrogance at it's best.

I am just telling it how it is. Maybe your PETA pals wouldnt  agree, but its in our right to be arrogant. We are the ''masters'' of this planet, and we dominate it, so we are right to be arrogant when we are that much more dominant than any other creatures on this planet.

Top of the food chain? What's your definition of food chain? Because for an animal to be at the top of the food chain, it can't have any natural predator. Like Killer Whales are the top predator of the oceans. You're confusing sports hunt with food hunting, which are two different concepts. 

Humans hunt killers whales too, dont they? Maybe not for food, but for other things. The thing is, maybe we dont hunt all the animals for food, but we do hunt most of animal species for other materials.


As for intelligence that's the only point in which humans are superior to any other animal species, but why would you add compassion to it? Humans are amongst the least compassionate animal species in the planet. It's scientifically proven that communities of mammals suchs as Dolphins and Canines, inter and intra-species compassion is much higher than in any other animal. 

Humans are the only species that are actually compationate and actually care about species other than their own. God knows how many human work force, resources and money goes into helping all kinds of animals in the world. Not to mention harming animals is punishable by law. No other species cares so much about the others as humans do.

Again, humans are not the most valuable living being on the planet. Humanity and the entire human species could dissapear from the face of the earth in a instant and the earth and every other species would continue on living.

Maybe valueable is a wrong word. I would say plants are most valueable, as they give life to all other living beings on planet. Fair enough. But humans are most likely to survive any kind of apocaliptic scenario than any other species thanks to our superior inteligence and logistics


If anything, the most valuable species in the planet are a throw down between Cyanobacteria and the innumerous species that compose Zooplancton and Fitoplancton, the true macroproducers of the world. If they were to dissapear, all life on earth would die in a matter of weeks, maybe one or two months, as nutrients in the ground would cease to renew, plants would wither and die and animals would follow suit. 

Don't place humanity in a pedestal. We're the most intelligent species that's true (and we missuse the capacities that we have so much, that I doubt that we're even that intelligent) but other than that we contribute almost nothing to the earth per se.





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I agree... I mean how can we expect animals to know how to read and write for the tests... they don't got no opposable thumbs and they don't understand English!



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Player1x3 said:
lestatdark said:
Player1x3 said:
lestatdark said:
Player1x3 said:
Ps3 said:
Jay520 said:
Animals are disgusting IMO


They are not! In a way, slavery also still exists in the world today! Horses and other animals are used as slaves, and I believe that's a form of animal testing. They're testing these animals will, and one day these animals are going to flip out on mankind. It's really sad seeing a horse pull a huge wagon with some sick idiot whipping him with a steel rod, and sometimes even stabbing them with those star things on the ends of their boots.


Animals are beings of lower biological order, their life isnt as important as a human life. Would you rather have all the medical drugs tested on humans and have them dead sickened?

Lower biological order? In whose's scale, yours? 

Because if you're talking in strict biological terms, humans are pretty low on the biological scale. We're not macro-producers nor are we on the top of any kind of food chain (as there are animals that hunt humans for food). If you're talking about rational order, then that has nothing to do with any kind of biological measure. 

Also, funny thing regarding humans, we're one of the few species in the biological kingdom that has no biological function for any other species. Kinda like locusts but able to do 2+2 in our brains.

Intelligence + dominance+ power+ reason + compassion + advancement, top on food chain (yes, humans can hunt down and kill any animal of any species they want) = humans are most valueable living beings on planet, and are thus superior to animals.

Human arrogance at it's best.

I am just telling it how it is. Maybe your PETA pals wouldnt  agree, but its in our right to be arrogant. We are the ''masters'' of this planet, and we dominate it, so we are right to be arrogant when we are that much more dominant than any other creatures on this planet.

Top of the food chain? What's your definition of food chain? Because for an animal to be at the top of the food chain, it can't have any natural predator. Like Killer Whales are the top predator of the oceans. You're confusing sports hunt with food hunting, which are two different concepts. 

Humans hunt killers whales too, dont they? Maybe not for food, but for other things. The thing is, maybe we dont hunt all the animals for food, but we do hunt most of animal species for other materials.


As for intelligence that's the only point in which humans are superior to any other animal species, but why would you add compassion to it? Humans are amongst the least compassionate animal species in the planet. It's scientifically proven that communities of mammals suchs as Dolphins and Canines, inter and intra-species compassion is much higher than in any other animal. 

Humans are the only species that are actually compationate and actually care about species other than their own. God knows how many human work force, resources and money goes into helping all kinds of animals in the world. Not to mention harming animals is punishable by law. No other species cares so much about the others as humans do.

Again, humans are not the most valuable living being on the planet. Humanity and the entire human species could dissapear from the face of the earth in a instant and the earth and every other species would continue on living.

Maybe valueable is a wrong word. I would say plants are most valueable, as they give life to all other living beings on planet. Fair enough. But humans are most likely to survive any kind of apocaliptic scenario than any other species thanks to our superior inteligence and logistics


If anything, the most valuable species in the planet are a throw down between Cyanobacteria and the innumerous species that compose Zooplancton and Fitoplancton, the true macroproducers of the world. If they were to dissapear, all life on earth would die in a matter of weeks, maybe one or two months, as nutrients in the ground would cease to renew, plants would wither and die and animals would follow suit. 

Don't place humanity in a pedestal. We're the most intelligent species that's true (and we missuse the capacities that we have so much, that I doubt that we're even that intelligent) but other than that we contribute almost nothing to the earth per se.



PETA pals? Pahahahahahahaha, oh man, thanks for the laugh

I hate PETA with a passion. I'm no pro-animal apologist nor "Free all the animals" as your OP PS3 said, go back and read my early replies on this thread. i just hate this kind of arrogant thinking "We rule this planet and every other animal is below us". 

Humans are compassionate? Yeah, indeed they are when they want to. Want to measure the amount of compassion versus violence in the entire human history? Because there's a clear winner there, and it's not the one that starts with a C. Humans are the only species that kill their own kind for fun, humans alone are responsible for the extinction of thousands of species that range from mammal, plant life and even some cases in the Monera realm, not only in centuries past but also recently.
There has been a distinctive push towards saving the large number of endangered species that we have in the past years, but go do a bit of research to learn just how "effective" it has been. We have reduced entire species to a point we're it's extremely hard to have a viable population sample to breed in large enough numbers to sustain themselves in the future without any kind of assistance. We basically have limited species such as the pandas, siberian tigers or the iberian lynx to only survive in specially created reserves that must be mantained and monitored constantly. 

Again, you're using conflicting terms for the top of the food chain terminology. Killer Whales also kill humans for fun, along with other species. There's a large number of species that can and do hunt humans.

You must really tell me what kind of technology do you have in your country that allows you to say, without doubt, that humanity can survive any kind of general extinction event, as there a vast number of scenarios that humanity doesn't stand a figment of chance, such as supervolcanic eruptions that would cover the atmosphere with enough ash to block out the sun and rise global temperatures to unsustainable levels, any kind of meteor impact similar to the one in the end of the cretacic period, or global nuclear warfare. And let's not talk about the extreme scenarios, such as the dissapearance of the magnetic field. For all of our technology, we are still just as vulnerable as we ever were.





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Player1x3 said:
lestatdark said:

humans are most likely to survive any kind of apocaliptic scenario than any other species thanks to our superior inteligence and logistics



I think you're confusing humans with:

 

There are some kinds of apocaliptic scenarios which, despite our superior intelligence and logistics (?), we cannot survive. Roaches however, would survive even a nuclear holocaust.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
lestatdark said:

 



I think you're confusing humans with:

 

There are some kinds of apocaliptic scenarios which, despite our superior intelligence and logistics (?), we cannot survive. Roaches however, would survive even a nuclear holocaust.

Actually, research tends to show people would survive a nucelear holocaust too...

Nuclear Holocaust scenarios of the Cold War were actually pretty greatly exagerrated.

http://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/82jpr.html

The actural radiation of nuclear bombs isn't near as dangerous as you'd think.

 

Also, Cockroaches aren't particularly resistant to nuclear radiation.  More so then humans sure, but there are other bugs way more resistant then cockroaches.

It's just people hate cockroaches, and cockroaches are seen as the "lowest of the low"... so it makes for good imagry.

Though actually that would need to be a "BURST" of radiation, and not the nuclear fallout type situation generally seen in exagerrated nuclear war stories.

Since cockroaches are only more resistant because unlike humans their cells aren't constantly dividing.



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Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:
lestatdark said:

 



I think you're confusing humans with:

 

There are some kinds of apocaliptic scenarios which, despite our superior intelligence and logistics (?), we cannot survive. Roaches however, would survive even a nuclear holocaust.

Actually, research tends to show people would survive a nucelear holocaust too...

Nuclear Holocaust scenarios of the Cold War were actually pretty greatly exagerrated.

http://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/82jpr.html

The actural radiation of nuclear bombs isn't near as dangerous as you'd think.

 

Also, Cockroaches aren't particularly resistant to nuclear radiation.  More so then humans sure, but there are other bugs way more resistant then cockroaches.

It's just people hate cockroaches, and cockroaches are seen as the "lowest of the low"... so it makes for good imagry.

Though actually that would need to be a "BURST" of radiation, and not the nuclear fallout type situation generally seen in exagerrated nuclear war stories.

Since cockroaches are only more resistant because unlike humans their cells aren't constantly dividing.

Well, that scenario seems pretty bleak for people who do not live in 3rd world countries anyways.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Animal testing for the advancement of human medical science and technology is a necessary evil. Much like killing and eating animals for food. I see nothing morally wrong with eating meat and I see nothing morally wrong with testing a possibly dangerous drug on a monkey before using it on a sick child.

That said , I would have a problem with someone who went around killing cattle for no reason and wasting the meat as well as animal testing with no medical or legitimate scientific purpose.



sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

Actually, research tends to show people would survive a nucelear holocaust too...

Nuclear Holocaust scenarios of the Cold War were actually pretty greatly exagerrated.

http://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/82jpr.html

The actural radiation of nuclear bombs isn't near as dangerous as you'd think.

 

Also, Cockroaches aren't particularly resistant to nuclear radiation.  More so then humans sure, but there are other bugs way more resistant then cockroaches.

It's just people hate cockroaches, and cockroaches are seen as the "lowest of the low"... so it makes for good imagry.

Though actually that would need to be a "BURST" of radiation, and not the nuclear fallout type situation generally seen in exagerrated nuclear war stories.

Since cockroaches are only more resistant because unlike humans their cells aren't constantly dividing.

Well, that scenario seems pretty bleak for people who do not live in 3rd world countries anyways.

Hey, i'm not saying it'd be awesome.  Just saying it wouldn't destroy the world.

Honsetly, i'd actually expect humans to be able to live in a constant nuclear fallout situation better, because they'd be able to adapt much more rapidly due to intellegence and technology.  No doubt shelters would be built rather quick.

That's the thing about human intellegence.  It accomplishes things evolution takes millions of years to accomplish.



Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
 

Actually, research tends to show people would survive a nucelear holocaust too...

Nuclear Holocaust scenarios of the Cold War were actually pretty greatly exagerrated.

http://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/82jpr.html

The actural radiation of nuclear bombs isn't near as dangerous as you'd think.

 

Also, Cockroaches aren't particularly resistant to nuclear radiation.  More so then humans sure, but there are other bugs way more resistant then cockroaches.

It's just people hate cockroaches, and cockroaches are seen as the "lowest of the low"... so it makes for good imagry.

Though actually that would need to be a "BURST" of radiation, and not the nuclear fallout type situation generally seen in exagerrated nuclear war stories.

Since cockroaches are only more resistant because unlike humans their cells aren't constantly dividing.

Well, that scenario seems pretty bleak for people who do not live in 3rd world countries anyways.

Hey, i'm not saying it'd be awesome.  Just saying it wouldn't destroy the world.

Honsetly, i'd actually expect humans to be able to live in a constant nuclear fallout situation better, because they'd be able to adapt much more rapidly due to intellegence and technology.  No doubt shelters would be built rather quick.

That's the thing about human intellegence.  It accomplishes things evolution takes millions of years to accomplish.

Quite true. Of course, this is a double-edged sword (e.g. mass extinction).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

I'm ok with animal testing if it is for medecinal progress. I don't like it but what else can we do? I'm pretty much a vegetarian but I see how testing new cures on mice might be better than on a human. Sometimes I find some people despicable and I value animals above these people, but I think of the good people who are sick... It's cruel to animals but needed. There are some human tests done too, but often it's not as dangerous.

What I hate however, are cosmetic companies or anything for the sake of vanity tested on them. There is no excuse for this, they know which products irritate our skin (in fact some of them are in and approved like sodium laurel/th sulfates-I get so itchy from it). This I am totally against and makes me think that humans can be so stupid and selfish.