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Forums - Politics - Obama breaks free trade agreement a second time, Canada thoroughly pissed!

Honestly Obama shouldn't even have to break the trade agreement if he wants American business to revitalize. All he really has to do is sign a short and sweet bill that greatly lowers the corporate tax rate in America. There you go Obama, I just saved you all the trouble and all the stimulous spending you want to do with just a simple solution.




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Joelcool7 said:
naznatips said:

Very stupid indeed, but it's sort of silly for people to suggest Canada can just ditch US trade. 70% of your exports go to us, and there is no way you're just going to be able to make that up on other countries. Both will need to work something out. 

Also, protectionism did indeed contribute a lot to the Great Depression, and this is easily the dumbest thing Obama has done in office (he has done some pretty good things too, mind you). 

Yah keep in mind it was the NDP that tabled the motion in 2009, not the ruling party and at the time they weren't even the official opposition. I think the move was supposed to send America a message but obviously Obama wasn't paying attention. Note that our Prime Minister hasn't suggested anything like this.

However the threat should still be seen as serious, since the NDP is now the official opposition in Canada. Canada hasn't been improving trade with China and such in favor of US trade for awhile now. Sure Canada couldn't completely ditch the United States but if we shifted trade deals and focused more on Asia and Europe the US would suffer greatly. Canadian trade could slowly diminish and that would only hurt America.

The question is if the NDP get elected as Government next election would they follow through on Jack Layton's threat? Obama should be concerned at the fact that his biggest trading partners Government is even thinking these kids of things. Honestly I hope Obama comes to his senses and removes the protectionist measures from his bill before it hurts trade relations any more!

Not to be rude, but isn't that kind-of like asking "If ponies grew wings would airplanes become obsolete?"

The strategy the NDP are currently following (appease Quebec at all costs to maintain your electoral gains) is incompatible with forming a government; especially when the parliament is finally expanding to reflect that growth in this country has occurred primarily west of Quebec.



oldschoolfool said:
another thing mexico is'nt pissed,because all they provide is the drugs and as long as america keeps trading with it's biggest partner china,then everything should be fine.

For some reason I quoted you instead of other post; sorry



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oldschoolfool said:
well,the purpose of these products being made in the U.S. is so that more money can go into the american economy.America is in an economic crisis and I honestly don't think Canada is all that big of a concern. I mean I think I can live without canadian bacon and maple syrup. lol

Wow. Can you live without softwood lumber, gold, oil, diamonds, motor vehicle parts, plastics, etc.? I didn't think so.




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HappySqurriel said:
Joelcool7 said:
naznatips said:

Very stupid indeed, but it's sort of silly for people to suggest Canada can just ditch US trade. 70% of your exports go to us, and there is no way you're just going to be able to make that up on other countries. Both will need to work something out. 

Also, protectionism did indeed contribute a lot to the Great Depression, and this is easily the dumbest thing Obama has done in office (he has done some pretty good things too, mind you). 

Yah keep in mind it was the NDP that tabled the motion in 2009, not the ruling party and at the time they weren't even the official opposition. I think the move was supposed to send America a message but obviously Obama wasn't paying attention. Note that our Prime Minister hasn't suggested anything like this.

However the threat should still be seen as serious, since the NDP is now the official opposition in Canada. Canada hasn't been improving trade with China and such in favor of US trade for awhile now. Sure Canada couldn't completely ditch the United States but if we shifted trade deals and focused more on Asia and Europe the US would suffer greatly. Canadian trade could slowly diminish and that would only hurt America.

The question is if the NDP get elected as Government next election would they follow through on Jack Layton's threat? Obama should be concerned at the fact that his biggest trading partners Government is even thinking these kids of things. Honestly I hope Obama comes to his senses and removes the protectionist measures from his bill before it hurts trade relations any more!

Not to be rude, but isn't that kind-of like asking "If ponies grew wings would airplanes become obsolete?"

The strategy the NDP are currently following (appease Quebec at all costs to maintain your electoral gains) is incompatible with forming a government; especially when the parliament is finally expanding to reflect that growth in this country has occurred primarily west of Quebec.


Your completely correct, Conservatives at the moment have the country in their back pocket with the exception of Quebec. Thing is you never know if that will change by the next election. I mean the Liberals had the country completely under their control prior to Paul Martin, the NDP being the official opposition could always turn things around. Though I agree on their present course (Kissing Quebec butt) they won't rule the country. But like I said things can change alot can happen in a few years, also alot of those who voted Conservative are actually former Liberal's and NDP to begin with. If the NDP were to win over those former NDP and Liberals they could potentially challenge Conservative control.

GuiltySpartan77 said:
No offense to Canada but why the hell would the United states sign something where they have to let foreign country's trade and sell stuff as if they were an American business? Sorry i just don't see the point.

Same can be said for Canada, why should we have to let America trade and sell stuff in Canada as if they were a Canadian business? If we stopped the US would be harmed more then Canada, despite America buying 70% of our exports Canada imports more American products then it exports.

The simple reason is jobs and money. If the US can't sell products in Canada who are they going to sell them too? Judging by your statement you don't understand the basics of trade. The US benefits a ton from selling products in Canada and having Canadian products sold in Americ

Read the other replies and you'll see how important Canada is to the United States, that is why Canadian businesses deserve the same treatment as American ones. Not to mention it doesn't even matter why the US signed NAFTA fact is they did, you can't just go around breaking your agreements.



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

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Joelcool7 said:
oldschoolfool said:
well,the purpose of these products being made in the U.S. is so that more money can go into the american economy.America is in an economic crisis and I honestly don't think Canada is all that big of a concern. I mean I think I can live without canadian bacon and maple syrup. lol


Umm The United States exports more then 248.8 billion dollars to Canada each year. By far the biggest market for American goods infact no other country comes even close with Mexico being the second biggest buyer of American goods at 163.3 billion dollars. Without Canada the US economy would loose a huge amount of their gross domestic product. China on the other hand only buys 91.9 billion dollars worth of products from the US almost 1/3rd of what Canada spends on American products. Infact Canada imports more products from the United States then the entire European Union combined!

As for imports there you are right American's buy more Chinese products then Canadian. However Canadian products bought by Americans account for 276.5 billion dollars a year. The majority of what Canada exports to the United States is raw materials like lumber,steel, oil etc...etc... While the majority of what the US imports from China are manufactured goods.

In total cross border trade between Canada and the US is around 525.3 billion dollars a year, almost 100 billion dollars more then the US trade with China.

I know your Canadian bacon and Maple Syrup thing was a joke, at least I sure hope it was.

Long story short the United States sells more to Canada then it buys. So if free trade were to go out the window and Canada put tariffs on everything coming into Canada. The US would loose billions and billions of dollars in trade, millions of American's would be out of work and the American economy would be in even more danger.

If Obama is worried about jobs then he needs to worry about trade. Because its Canada that keeps these people employed and Canadian trade that accounts for such a huge hunk of the US's trade income. Heck the Presidents entire Job plan only costs slightly more then what the US would loose if NAFTA were to be abolished.

*** Also yes a huge hunk of America's electriciity comes from Canada, if free trade were abolished then a huge hunk of the US would go dark***

"Canada is the major supplier of electricity to New England, New York, the Upper Midwest, the Pacific Northwest and California" - Government of Canada

You do realize that all these resources we already have and are perfectly self sufficient. The reason we import oil, and use electicity through Canada is to conserve our own for when it's really needed. As I stated, even with the oil situation, we could really go centuries without relying on other countries' oil. The US used to export many products and US made products were considered top quality. Due to corporate greed with the whole outsourcing, plenty of jobs were lost here, and many of the products we export to your beloved Canada are merely assembled here our brought over from China and other nations. We can live perfectly fine without Canada to be quite honest with you, and no offense to you, but I couldn't care less about Canada and their crying about the free trade agreement. In fact that is the absolute worst decision the Bush administration could have made. You should try checking out interviews with the late Aaron Russos, and even check his documentary "America: Freedom to Facism" to have an idea on many of these factors that have screwed us while benefitting you guys (and the greedy) more than us.



Make games, not war (that goes for ridiculous fanboys)

I may be the next Maelstorm or not, you be the judge http://videogamesgrow.blogspot.com/  hopefully I can be more of an asset than a fanboy to VGC hehe.

demonfox13 said:
Joelcool7 said:
oldschoolfool said:
well,the purpose of these products being made in the U.S. is so that more money can go into the american economy.America is in an economic crisis and I honestly don't think Canada is all that big of a concern. I mean I think I can live without canadian bacon and maple syrup. lol


Umm The United States exports more then 248.8 billion dollars to Canada each year. By far the biggest market for American goods infact no other country comes even close with Mexico being the second biggest buyer of American goods at 163.3 billion dollars. Without Canada the US economy would loose a huge amount of their gross domestic product. China on the other hand only buys 91.9 billion dollars worth of products from the US almost 1/3rd of what Canada spends on American products. Infact Canada imports more products from the United States then the entire European Union combined!

As for imports there you are right American's buy more Chinese products then Canadian. However Canadian products bought by Americans account for 276.5 billion dollars a year. The majority of what Canada exports to the United States is raw materials like lumber,steel, oil etc...etc... While the majority of what the US imports from China are manufactured goods.

In total cross border trade between Canada and the US is around 525.3 billion dollars a year, almost 100 billion dollars more then the US trade with China.

I know your Canadian bacon and Maple Syrup thing was a joke, at least I sure hope it was.

Long story short the United States sells more to Canada then it buys. So if free trade were to go out the window and Canada put tariffs on everything coming into Canada. The US would loose billions and billions of dollars in trade, millions of American's would be out of work and the American economy would be in even more danger.

If Obama is worried about jobs then he needs to worry about trade. Because its Canada that keeps these people employed and Canadian trade that accounts for such a huge hunk of the US's trade income. Heck the Presidents entire Job plan only costs slightly more then what the US would loose if NAFTA were to be abolished.

*** Also yes a huge hunk of America's electriciity comes from Canada, if free trade were abolished then a huge hunk of the US would go dark***

"Canada is the major supplier of electricity to New England, New York, the Upper Midwest, the Pacific Northwest and California" - Government of Canada

You do realize that all these resources we already have and are perfectly self sufficient. The reason we import oil, and use electicity through Canada is to conserve our own for when it's really needed. As I stated, even with the oil situation, we could really go centuries without relying on other countries' oil. The US used to export many products and US made products were considered top quality. Due to corporate greed with the whole outsourcing, plenty of jobs were lost here, and many of the products we export to your beloved Canada are merely assembled here our brought over from China and other nations. We can live perfectly fine without Canada to be quite honest with you, and no offense to you, but I couldn't care less about Canada and their crying about the free trade agreement. In fact that is the absolute worst decision the Bush administration could have made. You should try checking out interviews with the late Aaron Russos, and even check his documentary "America: Freedom to Facism" to have an idea on many of these factors that have screwed us while benefitting you guys (and the greedy) more than us.


Wow, just wow. lol you honestly think the US has enough oil to be self sufficient for centuries? Last I heard from Obama the US has enough stock piles to last the country about 34 days. Don't believe me check the stats, You honestly believe that the US the largest consumer of oil on the earth is going to be self sufficient for a hundred years?

P.S what power do you think the US could power itself with without Canada? The uranium in your nuclear power plants that power your country came from Canada, their wasn't much in the US for them to use. Then because the nuclear plants can't power the whole country and other electricity shortages occur , Canada sells its electricity to the US. If the US had all this abundant energy why would they be buying it from Canada?

Also what about fresh water, the US is running out. At the moment Canada has a limit to how much fresh water is exported to the United States but the US's stockpiles are beginning to shrink. Then how about lumber yah the US has lots of lumber, but it would run out very fast if they didn't import lumber from Canada and South America.

The US is far from self sufficient when it comes to any resource. You have been severely misinformed if you actually believe the US doesn't need Canada.

Umm no I'm not going to subject myself to brainwashing trash so I won't watch that documentary lol. How exactly has Canada benefited more then the US from NAFTA?

I mean the lumber dispute the US gov stole billions, all of our gas prices are higher because we export our natural gas to the US. In fact you say America doesn't need our natural resources they have their own. So why the heck is America buying our gas , oil and resources when they have a huge stock pile? Who's benefiting from that? Not Canada, if your right the US is stealing billions from Canada for its own self preservation.

I mean if your right what is Canada going to do when we run out of our resources because we sold them all to you, who didn't need them to begin with. Well that would leave Canada a little screwed over now wouldn't it, the US would have all these resources while Canadians rot. Yah I can see all the benefits we are getting.

Drive our prices higher because products have to sell to more then 400 million people, but if it was just being sold to Canada the market would be much smaller which would mean much cheaper prices for basic resources.

So basically your saying the US is a selfish greedy a-hole and Canada should terminate all trade immediately so that the US doesn't suck us dry anymore. If what your saying is correct Canada is loosing on a daily basis to your greedy , selfish country! Because the US already has everything it needs, it just wants to suck Canada dry so that it has more resources saved for later.

You know how twisted your Government must be, to use and abuse all the countries it trades with!

Luckily your theory is nuts and the US needs Canada just as much if not more then Canada needs the US. The US also needs international trade just as much as any other G8 country! You'll need to do some research other then propaganda documentaries before you go on here and trash talk your countries most important ally!



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

Allfreedom99 said:
Honestly Obama shouldn't even have to break the trade agreement if he wants American business to revitalize. All he really has to do is sign a short and sweet bill that greatly lowers the corporate tax rate in America. There you go Obama, I just saved you all the trouble and all the stimulous spending you want to do with just a simple solution.

Yeah, but then you end up with either a huge deficit or are just smacked right back in the face when things change back.

 

Honestly what would help buisness the most is to do.... NOTHING.

 

Just stop everything new, and say "Hey this is our situation, we aren't changing anything."


There is so much shit going on, from the new healthcare law, to Dodd-Frank, to whatever stimulus stuff may happen, that nobody has any idea what the fuck  the landscape is even going to look like in the future, so all the buisnesses are just standing pat.

 

Getting rid of Dodd-Frank, and not doing a stimulus would go a LONG way to fixing things.  Espiecally since Dodd Frank has basically been crafted to wipe out small banks. (which are the only banks that loan to a lot of entrepenuers).

 

No doubt Dodd Frank will happen, small banks will be wiped out, then the big megabanks will use the fact that lower middle class entrepenuers can't get loans as an excuse to remove dodd frank, which won't much effect said loans, and suddenly everyone will know why Chris Dodd, the senator who got the most Big bank bucks wrote a law that was so "anti-bank."

 

I mean, it'd help even more if they got rid of the new Healthcare law too... but I mean, that's basically all Obama has done, getting rid of it is unrealistic.



Kasz216 said:
Allfreedom99 said:
Honestly Obama shouldn't even have to break the trade agreement if he wants American business to revitalize. All he really has to do is sign a short and sweet bill that greatly lowers the corporate tax rate in America. There you go Obama, I just saved you all the trouble and all the stimulous spending you want to do with just a simple solution.

Yeah, but then you end up with either a huge deficit or are just smacked right back in the face when things change back.

 

Honestly what would help buisness the most is to do.... NOTHING.

 

Just stop everything new, and say "Hey this is our situation, we aren't changing anything."


There is so much shit going on, from the new healthcare law, to Dodd-Frank, to whatever stimulus stuff may happen, that nobody has any idea what the fuck  the landscape is even going to look like in the future, so all the buisnesses are just standing pat.

 

Getting rid of Dodd-Frank, and not doing a stimulus would go a LONG way to fixing things.  Espiecally since Dodd Frank has basically been crafted to wipe out small banks. (which are the only banks that loan to a lot of entrepenuers).

 

No doubt Dodd Frank will happen, small banks will be wiped out, then the big megabanks will use the fact that lower middle class entrepenuers can't get loans as an excuse to remove dodd frank, which won't much effect said loans, and suddenly everyone will know why Chris Dodd, the senator who got the most Big bank bucks wrote a law that was so "anti-bank."

 

I mean, it'd help even more if they got rid of the new Healthcare law too... but I mean, that's basically all Obama has done, getting rid of it is unrealistic.

I hear you there. Get rid of Dodd Frank, undo the workings of the healthcare law, and roll back a lot of the regulations that have been put in place in recent years. I agree the U.S. economy needs stability and an assured scope of what is going on.




Well, that's what you get when the government is allowed to get so big. It starts meddling in things it shouldn't be. Then you get people who say we should have a world society, yet want to pass laws that hinder and control free trade with other countries. Then these same people think the US can provide for everything that its people require/want, yet pass regulations and new taxes that drive business out of the country because they can barely profit here. Then if a company does try to profit here, those same people scream they are being greedy because they have to charge more for their products than most can pay.