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Forums - General Discussion - Turkey's prime minister determined to have a war with Israel.

scottie said:
Ok, edited post above.

Regardless, what of any of this makes you think Turkey wants war with Israel? Have you honestly considered this? Turkey starting a war with Israel, that's going to end well. So you must concede that it is not a prelude to war.

I honestly don't give a shit if you think that the Israeli's are in the right in every sense, and that everyone else around there is pure evil, you're entitled to believe what you want about issues of morality. But you must acknowledge that Turkey's intention is not to start a war, this is just fact, and you are just incorrect otherwise.


i think turkey has been dick riding iran and syria(syria only precrackdown) and erdogan has been moving his country from a secular country to an islamic state.  the strong relations between the two have pretty much been completely destroyed, and turkey wants to be a big player in the muslim world.   getting into a pushing match with israel is definitely one way to endear them to you.  

if turkey follows through on these threats it could easily lead to war.   israel has a blockade on gaza.  if turkey sends military craft, which erdogan will probably be on himself, israel can either enforce the blockade or stop the blockade.  the blockade needs to be in place to prevent weapons being smuggled in by sea, they get far to many in via tunnels now as it is.  

i think very much erdogan would like to see a conflict.  he sees backing from both the islamic world and nato(since turkey is part of it) and wants to shove his weight around. 



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

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While I'd hate to see any war... I want to see israels illegal blockade stopped. I hope Palestinian un moves work and I hope the arab nations with egypt military in sinai work something out with the very strong turkey.



MrBubbles said:
scottie said:
Ok, edited post above.

Regardless, what of any of this makes you think Turkey wants war with Israel? Have you honestly considered this? Turkey starting a war with Israel, that's going to end well. So you must concede that it is not a prelude to war.

But you must acknowledge that Turkey's intention is not to start a war

  israel has a blockade on gaza.  if turkey sends military craft, which erdogan will probably be on himself, israel can either enforce the blockade or stop the blockade.  


There we go. The true motive revealed. If you edit the title to 'Turkey's Prime Minster determined to end the blockade of Gaza. This may lead to war between Israel and turkey' then I shall be completely satisfied.



Turkey isn't going to war with Israel. It is not in Turkeys or Israels interest, this will never go beyond a bit of sabre rattling.

Also while the statement from Erdogan is a bit stupid, Israel is far from free from blame in this. Their raid on the Turkish ship was far more extreme than it needed to be as the recent UN report has shown.



Bring them on! IDF is always ready.



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Turkey's prime minister wants to have war with Israel, just because Bibi refuses to apologize for killing nine peace activists in international waters, an act that has been condemned as completely unneccessary violence by the UN report? That's just BS.

But anyway... Won't Palestine becoming a recognized state by the UN in about two weeks change the sea blockage situation anyway? I know from israeli newspapers that recognition of Palestine means that the jewish settlements will legally be considered war crimes by international law, so I wouldn't be surprised if the legal situation of the sea blockade changes too...



While i am worried about Turkey's shifting alignment, i feel this particular move is prudent. The Israeli raid on the flotilla helped to really hurt Israeli credibility with everyone whose opinion on the matter isn't set in stone, and Israel has to know that they can't afford to screw up like that again, so Turkey's pressing the issue is something Israel can't really react to unless they want to jeopardize their standing still further



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they said it was excessive but legal.

legally israel has the right to capture any ship violating the blockade and sink any ship that resists, so in theory they could have legally sunk the mavi marmara.  and anyone on the ship that had resisted could be taken as a pow.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

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MrBubbles said:

they said it was excessive but legal.

legally israel has the right to capture any ship violating the blockade and sink any ship that resists, so in theory they could have legally sunk the mavi marmara.  and anyone on the ship that had resisted could be taken as a pow.


I question your interpretation of the law

 

"Under international law [Israel] can use force when boarding a ship.

"If force is disproportionate it would be a violation of the key tenets of the use of force," said Commander James Kraska, professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College.

Israeli authorities said marines who boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara opened fire in self-defense after activists clubbed and stabbed them and snatched some of their weapons.

Legal experts say proportional force does not mean that guns cannot be used by forces when being attacked with knives.""

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/02/us-israel-flotilla-gaza-idUSTRE65133D20100602

 

Shooting the 9 people was unlawful (although it is enough of a grey area that nothing would ever come of it), sinking the boat would have been extremely unlawful.

 

Edit - Provided a link

 



scottie said:
MrBubbles said:

they said it was excessive but legal.

legally israel has the right to capture any ship violating the blockade and sink any ship that resists, so in theory they could have legally sunk the mavi marmara.  and anyone on the ship that had resisted could be taken as a pow.


I question your interpretation of the law

 

"Under international law [Israel] can use force when boarding a ship.

"If force is disproportionate it would be a violation of the key tenets of the use of force," said Commander James Kraska, professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College.

Israeli authorities said marines who boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara opened fire in self-defense after activists clubbed and stabbed them and snatched some of their weapons.

Legal experts say proportional force does not mean that guns cannot be used by forces when being attacked with knives.""

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/02/us-israel-flotilla-gaza-idUSTRE65133D20100602

 

Shooting the 9 people was unlawful (although it is enough of a grey area that nothing would ever come of it), sinking the boat would have been extremely unlawful.

 

Edit - Provided a link

 


what youve posted and what your link says dont indicate that it was unlawful.  you may wish to browse the document mentioned in your link btw.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

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