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Forums - General Discussion - 'Living fossils' and amber fossils disproves evolution (the idea all life came from a common ancestor)

theprof00 said:
Sevengen said:
@theprof00

you begin your post by saying, "I submit this proposal" and end your post with, "Prove me wrong"

You need to put a little more thought into how you word things, because a proposal is simply another word for opinion; which is itself little more than conjecture; guesswork.

So there's really no need to prove you wrong. You sorta did that already.... all by yourself, by asking for conflicting evidence to a purely subjecitve idea.
You can't really argue fact with fiction.
That's kinda like me saying, 'hey..I believe I've got wings and titanium abs'.. prove me wrong.

It's not an opinion. It is fact. God is Science. It says so in the Bible. The only truths we know is science and math. Therefore they are the same. If evolution didn't happen, then God somehow used a process identical to evolution.

but the bible is not god. In fact, the early catholic church rewrote, chopped up the jewish bible to how they see fit, and destroyed other ancient texts.

not that I believe in god either.



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Interesting.



padib said:
theprof00 said:

It does not say that all life came from one specific cell. It says that all live came from single celled organisms. There is a difference between saying one specific cell multiplied into all life, and saying thousands of cells might have all appeared concurrently.

I don't know the basics, but evolution is more about a "stuff" being the root of all life, and not one specific thing. ie; Adam isn't the father of all humans, Adam appeared at the same time as Pedro, Xin, Murphy, Bjorn, and Dunga. All fathered their own children. (to use an example you might better understand)

To be totally honest the first example was better. :B Okay, so OP was correct. I understand I meant basic cell as in a base species, not a base lifeform. Okay, my understanding was accurate. Thanks for clarifying.

But that's not what evolution says. It doesn't say everything comes from a common ancestor, and for example, all people could come from pedro, xin, murphy, etc, and not just Adam.

Much of the argument over this whole topic comes from the lack of care to get the details right. OP gets both the messenger AND the message wrong.

Evo does not say "all life from common ancestor", and furthermore "all life does not come from common ancestor". He's using a false message, saying it was from the wrong theory, and using that to make a flat point.



ishiki said:
theprof00 said:
Sevengen said:
@theprof00

you begin your post by saying, "I submit this proposal" and end your post with, "Prove me wrong"

You need to put a little more thought into how you word things, because a proposal is simply another word for opinion; which is itself little more than conjecture; guesswork.

So there's really no need to prove you wrong. You sorta did that already.... all by yourself, by asking for conflicting evidence to a purely subjecitve idea.
You can't really argue fact with fiction.
That's kinda like me saying, 'hey..I believe I've got wings and titanium abs'.. prove me wrong.

It's not an opinion. It is fact. God is Science. It says so in the Bible. The only truths we know is science and math. Therefore they are the same. If evolution didn't happen, then God somehow used a process identical to evolution.

but the bible is not god. In fact, the early catholic church rewrote, chopped up the jewish bible to how they see fit, and destroyed other ancient texts.

not that I believe in god either.

I'm not asking science to prove me wrong. I'm asking Christians to prove me wrong.



Under the theory of evolution the most significant changes come from sexual or environmental changes. If neither of these change for a species over the course of many millions of years then no significant change is expected to happen. Genetic drift does not strongly effect large populations of animals so a population which has remained consistently large over a long period of time with little environmental or sexual pressure will not necessarily evolve in a significant or visible manner.

Living fossils do not disprove evolution.



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And the idea that a "God" exists, and that an "Angel" came and told a bloke that his partner is pregnant but hasnt had sex (because that's possible) doesnt sound ridiculous at all no no no not at all. i mean the proofs there in a book what more proof do you need? if the book says so then it must be true right?....right?



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Rath said:
Under the theory of evolution the most significant changes come from sexual or environmental changes. If neither of these change for a species over the course of many millions of years then no significant change is expected to happen. Genetic drift does not strongly effect large populations of animals so a population which has remained consistently large over a long period of time with little environmental or sexual pressure will not necessarily evolve in a significant or visible manner.

Living fossils do not disprove evolution.

This is also the reason why sea creatures sometimes go millions of years without a change in appearance, because the ocean does not change for the most part, and it's a relatively barren space topographically.



theprof00 said:
I submit this proposal of the nature of God.

According to Genesis, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word WAS God.

According to the Bible God is Truth, and Truth is the word.

Using this description, I propose that God IS the mathematical concepts that we discover. God is e=mc2, and we know that it is him because there is no e=mc100. God is the very fabric of all natural law, and through those laws he creates us and controls us by forcing law upon us. This in turn shows that God is essentially science.

This is reinforced by the fact that through science we will soon be able to grow life without life, and clone, and do the things considered blasphemous. Even a computer processor is modeled after patterns of natural travel, which in turn is co-represented in the brain and heart of everything.

Science will eventually be used create to the perfect being after our own image that surpasses our limitations, as everyday our species violently surges past the limitations of previous generations.

Prove me wrong.

God is Truth, but He also is Path and Life, like Jesus said.
It`s not like God isn`t science, i just wouldn`t say He`s essentially science, He is that and more: Jesus said He came to bear witness to the truth and all those on the side of the truth will listen to Him. Something we could call faith.
So all the word that came from God and Jesus - about morality, how to live, love, heaven and hell, etc. - is the Truth, because they are Truth.
Path, truth and life make all for the same thing as they are connected in the same way God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are connected. No room for another truthfull way to live and no room for another God. What He says is and that`s all to it.

So, in the end, it`s more than science.

Aren`t you asking too much from a imperfect and limited understanding and intelligence (science)? To be able to create the perfect being you would first need to know what perfect is.



DélioPT said:
theprof00 said:
I submit this proposal of the nature of God.

According to Genesis, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word WAS God.

According to the Bible God is Truth, and Truth is the word.

Using this description, I propose that God IS the mathematical concepts that we discover. God is e=mc2, and we know that it is him because there is no e=mc100. God is the very fabric of all natural law, and through those laws he creates us and controls us by forcing law upon us. This in turn shows that God is essentially science.

This is reinforced by the fact that through science we will soon be able to grow life without life, and clone, and do the things considered blasphemous. Even a computer processor is modeled after patterns of natural travel, which in turn is co-represented in the brain and heart of everything.

Science will eventually be used create to the perfect being after our own image that surpasses our limitations, as everyday our species violently surges past the limitations of previous generations.

Prove me wrong.

God is Truth, but He also is Path and Life, like Jesus said.
It`s not like God isn`t science, i just wouldn`t say He`s essentially science, He is that and more: Jesus said He came to bear witness to the truth and all those on the side of the truth will listen to Him. Something we could call faith.
So all the word that came from God and Jesus - about morality, how to live, love, heaven and hell, etc. - is the Truth, because they are Truth.
Path, truth and life make all for the same thing as they are connected in the same way God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are connected. No room for another truthfull way to live and no room for another God. What He says is and that`s all to it.

So, in the end, it`s more than science.

Aren`t you asking too much from a imperfect and limited understanding and intelligence (science)? To be able to create the perfect being you would first need to know what perfect is.

What evidence do you have that he is more than that?

You claim that our limited understanding prevents us from knowing what perfect is, and around the time it was written, little did anyone truly understand science. How do you know they weren't talking about science? We can duplicate people, without a womb. We can soon regrow livers and stomaches and one day brains. What do you think early canaanites would think of that?

Furthermore, the Bible was written by imperfect beings. What evidence do you have that they were even able to convey his perfection in any shape or form? How do you know that those descriptions didn't just exist solely to help people relate?

Also, think about this. Say in the universe e=mc2 coexists with e=mc3 and e=mc100. Multiply that by all the different laws: gravity, light, orbit, etc. What if mathematical equations are infinite, and God is the perfect combination that creates life, and is the onyly combination that can create life? To a normal person, the idea that light could be different than it is is mind boggling, yet we know that light is a spectrum beyond what we understand with our natural eyes. Light is more than the property it is, so perhaps there is hidden sides of everything.



theprof00 said:

What evidence do you have that he is more than that?

You claim that our limited understanding prevents us from knowing what perfect is, and around the time it was written, little did anyone truly understand science. How do you know they weren't talking about science? We can duplicate people, without a womb. We can soon regrow livers and stomaches and one day brains. What do you think early canaanites would think of that?

Furthermore, the Bible was written by imperfect beings. What evidence do you have that they were even able to convey his perfection in any shape or form? How do you know that those descriptions didn't just exist solely to help people relate?

Also, think about this. Say in the universe e=mc2 coexists with e=mc3 and e=mc100. Multiply that by all the different laws: gravity, light, orbit, etc. What if mathematical equations are infinite, and God is the perfect combination that creates life, and is the onyly combination that can create life? To a normal person, the idea that light could be different than it is is mind boggling, yet we know that light is a spectrum beyond what we understand with our natural eyes. Light is more than the property it is, so perhaps there is hidden sides of everything.

Jesus came to help us go to heaven, for one side, and to also teach us about love. The whole life of Christ and His existance derivates from Love.
The Bible speaks about everything, even about the creation of the world, that`s why i said He is also science, but not just that.
I just think that saying God is science is not all there is to it and the Bible shows that. It`s not just about the world, but also about it`s meaning.

"How do you know that those descriptions didn't just exist solely to help people relate?"
That is a matter of faith: do you believe them or not? Yes, it was written by imperfect beings that not only wrote what they saw and heard, but also about what God inspired them to. But then again, you basic premise of God being the Truth is also one of those descriptions.
Of course, one could point out miracles and apparitions to show that what was in the Bible is also alive outside of it and those descriptions are indeed true.

I honestly don`t really know how to comment on the last part, but i`ll try. Hidden sides to me means that we don`t know everything or can`t know everything. Things is, if it was in our nature we probably wouldn`t be even having this conversation, we would know exactly what each other means and how things are.
So, i don`t think that knowing more will make us know everything about everything.