Precisely.

What incredible proof do you want? My photo with people from SAS in front of 1986 bombings memorial holding al-Mamlakah banner? Common sense and previous experience that's really all I got at the time of writing the post you're referring to. That's why it was worded like assumption, which has been practically confirmed by now. But I forgot who I'm talking to. I assume any link to random info that's coming from anything what’s considered trustworthy would be enough?

Here we go then: Libya: SAS leads hunt for Gaddafi (The Telegraph article followed by massive meltdown of commentators - fun!). Or this: Qatari special forces led Libyan attack on compound. I've got more if that's what you need, but it's be easier if you'd do all the legwork by yourself, google "Operation Mermaid Dawn" for the starters.

now oil price better f'ing drop

On other matters related to the discussion.

There's third force in the conflict people are often forgetting about - Islamists (I mean besides Gaddafi vs. NTC plus NATO, which are mainly French and Brits, US are really playing their own game here). Yes, it seems like they're on the side of National Transitional Council (the whole deal with Tripoli Brigade etc, see below), but that's only for a while. NTC is playing here a role of a infamous Moor, the one that has done it's duty and can go (and he will, mark my words). On Saturday they've started their own military operation in Tripoli named "Badr" (yep, just like Taliban). At this point the only who's is writing anything about them in the conflict is Thierry Meyssan, but given his reputation *ahem* no surpsise he isn't getting attention, though the story perfectly fits current situation at Maghreb and the Near East (or in other words "makes perfect sense"!).


//Tripoli (Revolutionaries) Brigade was formed in February 2011 by the citizen of Republic of Ireland Mahdi al-Harati. They've even got an account at Facebook. It stared from the modest 150 fighters and grew up to 1000. First entrants were trained at Nalut, by "Qatari" specialists (Taliban training camps anyone?), see Al-Jazeera report. Most "officers" there are migrants from the region and citizens of Canada, Great Britan and the US (sort of Islaminter). It's performance was rather mixed, they've got heavy beating at Zawiya from Khamis (Frunze Academy graduate after all), but re-established themselves as meaningful force at Tripoli, though to be fair they were dealing with militia mostly there.

And the last for now (old video, not related to Tripoli): Saif al-Islam is whining that "the West shouldn't be trusted" and "we should have bought more weapons" (told you so!).

Really? I'm surprised. Can't see how the Pals could build up an economy while under a brutal occupation and their lives completely dominated. Comparing occupied Palestine to Ireland and N.ireland is the foolish mistake. There's barely a comparison to be had and the British rule in N.Ireland was far less savage than the the Israeli occupation. Israel didn't even accept the shameful secret PA concessions evident in the Palestinian Papers released to Al Jezeera and The Guardian. I really can't see (unless from a Imperialist/Colonialist/Zionist/Christian Fundamentalist POV) how anyone who's read the actual histrory of the conflict could side with the Israelis in this conflict.

There is a reason why I said to an extent. Where he's correct is that we have literally no bargaining power at the moment...not with the current Arab rulers...the only people who seem to know what's best for the Palestinian plight are Erdogan and the Emir of Qatar. Turkey's a major player in regional power, but Qatar isn't. The Egyptians are still fighting off the old regime to this day.

I am firmly anti-Zionist (again, for reiteration, that does NOT mean I'm antisemitic/against the Jews), and I have no sympathy with the Israeli government whatsoever. Just so you know. And I know the conflict quite well as a Palestinian myself (us Arabs in general are more awake than people can possibly imagine). However, I'm also trying to keep it civil.

But what I mean is, just for the time being, to find a way to at least break the Gaza embargo. Because conditions there are FAR more brutal than the West Bank. But of course, that doesn't mean they should settle for something that puts them in a tough spot for future plans.

It's actually pretty simple.

The whole thing is the UK's fault.

Which lead to an imperfect solution that Israel accepted and Palestine didn't.

As such, the wars etc, and the fighting has just continued since despite claimed ceasefires.... and Hamas is almost always the one who fires first.

If what the concessions in the Palestine Papers are true, then the Palestine Authority should in fact state that openly and say that is there deal, and have Israel explain why they won't accept it.

As it is, neither side wants to admit that it was that far, and I believe at least one Israel official went as far as to say "If they offered that, we'd have a deal right now."

As for why Israel wouldn't accept such a deal, the fact that the PA is denying that was an offer kinda explains why they would doesn't it?  If it's a deal they can't even admit to their people they'd make what's the point?

The expectations of the Palestine people are unrealistic and have been maintained that way throught the entire history.

There were much better deals on the table for the Palestinians and they walked away because their people wouldn't accept it.

Like Ireland, they need to realize, they lost a war,(they basically started, well them or the UK.) are not on an equal playing field, and in fact the more time they waste, the more uneven the playing field becomes.

Right now Hamas and the PA's goal seems to be to make the Palestinians as pathetic as possible to try and garner international sympaty and keep poking israel with a stick hoping despite Israel being way more powerful.

Versus the Irish way of taking as much as you can, building up your nation and then arugeing you were forced into a bad agreement by durress.

Neither strategy is likely to work... but only one of them leads to a ton of deaths and poverty for basically all.

As long as rocket attacks are practicallly a daily basis you'll never get enough support to stop any of the things Israel is doing.

Could you imagine if Cuba strated firing missles into florida?  Or Laos into China, or even Latvia into Sweeden?

It'd be no different.

And such a strategy would actually work. I don't get the Palestieans. Its like they intentionally choose to do everything they can to continue to be opressed. If they would, for about two decades, decide to simply focus on themselves, and stop using terrorism as a tool to gain concessions, they would eventually win and either gain statehood, or regain some of current-day Israel. Instead, they make themselves to be the aggressors in some if not most cases, which does them far more harm than good. 

Yeah... they'd probably get official statehood within 5 years, be fully autonomous in under 10....

not sure how much land they'd gain back after that... but i'd rather have 90% of my country and prosperous, then have 0% of my country with a longshot of having it all and being poor.

Me... I get it though.

The Palestine Authority is greatly disliked and only in the West Bank because it's seen as the best chance for a negotiation.  Once the negotiations actually happen, chances are the PA bigshots will be powerless in the new government and a lot of them are corrupt and don't want to lose said power.

Hamas... gets it's support political wing wise based on the sole issue of "Israel is the enemy."

Such a position is not teneable if Palestine were a true country with all the consequences such stances like that would have on the world stage.  I think the only reason most governments don't recognize Hamas as the true leaders of Gaza is because then all the rockets being shot are very clearly acts of war that would give Israel far more leeway in everything they're doing. 

That said though Hamas' power would also fall apart in a realized Palestine that had to focus on real solutions and not on "We all hate Israel."  Well that and likely the disbanding of Hamas would be a requirement for peace.  What with them basically being behind all the terrorist attacks.