Libya almost liberated now what?

[Kasz216]

mrstickball said:

Kasz216 said:

Badassbab said:

huaxiong90 said:

Kasz216 said:

Espiecally with the number of children with PTSD.

Palestine should take a lesson from the Irish... build what's left of your nation into a respectable nation with it's own economy and army... and then have terrorists.

Right now the Palestinians are being stubborn and foolish... in a situation in which they have almost no barganing power.

I didn't see this edit. To an extent, I agree.

Really? I'm surprised. Can't see how the Pals could build up an economy while under a brutal occupation and their lives completely dominated. Comparing occupied Palestine to Ireland and N.ireland is the foolish mistake. There's barely a comparison to be had and the British rule in N.Ireland was far less savage than the the Israeli occupation. Israel didn't even accept the shameful secret PA concessions evident in the Palestinian Papers released to Al Jezeera and The Guardian. I really can't see (unless from a Imperialist/Colonialist/Zionist/Christian Fundamentalist POV) how anyone who's read the actual histrory of the conflict could side with the Israelis in this conflict.

It's actually pretty simple.

The whole thing is the UK's fault.

Which lead to an imperfect solution that Israel accepted and Palestine didn't.

As such, the wars etc, and the fighting has just continued since despite claimed ceasefires.... and Hamas is almost always the one who fires first.

 

If what the concessions in the Palestine Papers are true, then the Palestine Authority should in fact state that openly and say that is there deal, and have Israel explain why they won't accept it.

As it is, neither side wants to admit that it was that far, and I believe at least one Israel official went as far as to say "If they offered that, we'd have a deal right now."

As for why Israel wouldn't accept such a deal, the fact that the PA is denying that was an offer kinda explains why they would doesn't it?  If it's a deal they can't even admit to their people they'd make what's the point?

The expectations of the Palestine people are unrealistic and have been maintained that way throught the entire history.

There were much better deals on the table for the Palestinians and they walked away because their people wouldn't accept it.

Like Ireland, they need to realize, they lost a war,(they basically started, well them or the UK.) are not on an equal playing field, and in fact the more time they waste, the more uneven the playing field becomes.

Right now Hamas and the PA's goal seems to be to make the Palestinians as pathetic as possible to try and garner international sympaty and keep poking israel with a stick hoping despite Israel being way more powerful.

Versus the Irish way of taking as much as you can, building up your nation and then arugeing you were forced into a bad agreement by durress.

Neither strategy is likely to work... but only one of them leads to a ton of deaths and poverty for basically all.

As long as rocket attacks are practicallly a daily basis you'll never get enough support to stop any of the things Israel is doing.

Could you imagine if Cuba strated firing missles into florida?  Or Laos into China, or even Latvia into Sweeden?

It'd be no different.

And such a strategy would actually work. I don't get the Palestieans. Its like they intentionally choose to do everything they can to continue to be opressed. If they would, for about two decades, decide to simply focus on themselves, and stop using terrorism as a tool to gain concessions, they would eventually win and either gain statehood, or regain some of current-day Israel. Instead, they make themselves to be the aggressors in some if not most cases, which does them far more harm than good. 

Yeah... they'd probably get official statehood within 5 years, be fully autonomous in under 10....

not sure how much land they'd gain back after that... but i'd rather have 90% of my country and prosperous, then have 0% of my country with a longshot of having it all and being poor.

Me... I get it though.

The Palestine Authority is greatly disliked and only in the West Bank because it's seen as the best chance for a negotiation.  Once the negotiations actually happen, chances are the PA bigshots will be powerless in the new government and a lot of them are corrupt and don't want to lose said power.

Hamas... gets it's support political wing wise based on the sole issue of "Israel is the enemy."

Such a position is not teneable if Palestine were a true country with all the consequences such stances like that would have on the world stage.  I think the only reason most governments don't recognize Hamas as the true leaders of Gaza is because then all the rockets being shot are very clearly acts of war that would give Israel far more leeway in everything they're doing. 

That said though Hamas' power would also fall apart in a realized Palestine that had to focus on real solutions and not on "We all hate Israel."  Well that and likely the disbanding of Hamas would be a requirement for peace.  What with them basically being behind all the terrorist attacks.