| huaxiong90 said: The last two comments echo precisely what worries me about foreign media. |
Actually I've been following this almost exclusively on Al Jazeera which is very much Middle Eastern.

| huaxiong90 said: The last two comments echo precisely what worries me about foreign media. |
Actually I've been following this almost exclusively on Al Jazeera which is very much Middle Eastern.

Rath said:
|
Let me start off by saying that there are differences between the reporting of Al Jazeera Arabic and its English counterpart.
In any case, about what I take issue with in your comment:
- It took Russia TOO long to actually make a step in recognizing the NTC, even though it's not full recognition yet (IIRC). Is it just slowness on their part? Haha, you tell me.
- About tribal warfare. Yeah, it's a WORST case scenario, but the chances of it happening are small...especially when there are Qathathfa in the rebels. Not to mention, one of the primary goals of many of the rebels is preserving the unity, and not let certain small groups go rogue to try and steer the revolution off its course.
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huaxiong90 said:
Let me start off by saying that there are differences between the reporting of Al Jazeera Arabic and its English counterpart. In any case, about what I take issue with in your comment: - It took Russia TOO long to actually make a step in recognizing the NTC, even though it's not full recognition yet (IIRC). Is it just slowness on their part? Haha, you tell me. - About tribal warfare. Yeah, it's a WORST case scenario, but the chances of it happening are small...especially when there are Qathathfa in the rebels. Not to mention, one of the primary goals of many of the rebels is preserving the unity, and not let certain small groups go rogue to try and steer the revolution off its course. |
I actually thought you were getting at the bit about there being support for NATO =P
I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Russia part? I was just commenting that Russia has both criticised NATO for what they see as overstepping the bounds of the resolution but that they've also called for Gadaffi to go.
And yeah Tribal warfare is a worst case - I'm not claiming that it's likely to happen. Though I think it would be naive to assume that Libya is going to settle into a perfect democracy.
And I would read Al Jazeera Arabic but I can't read Arabic, AJE is the best I can do.

| Rath said: I actually thought you were getting at the bit about there being support for NATO =P Nah, us Arabs for the most part support the intervention since Arab countries won't do it on their own. Otherwise, Benghazi would've been the scene for one of the biggest massacres in the history of mankind. However, Libya will repay this intervention based on mutual respects and interests. It (hopefully) won't be like the old days where we're the underdogs like with the previous regimes. In other words, the people will work for THEIR interests before another country's. I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Russia part? I was just commenting that Russia has both criticised NATO for what they see as overstepping the bounds of the resolution but that they've also called for Gadaffi to go. About them being happy to see him gone. Libya and Syria amongst some others are some of the few countries that answer to Russia here. They called for him to leave due to pressure, and because they had no other option. That's not to say the NTC will snub them, though. And yeah Tribal warfare is a worst case - I'm not claiming that it's likely to happen. Though I think it would be naive to assume that Libya is going to settle into a perfect democracy. Of course it's gonna be a long, difficult road. But what I've seen in the Libyans gives me faith in them.
And I would read Al Jazeera Arabic but I can't read Arabic, AJE is the best I can do. I don't blame you. But it is for the most part reliable, so it isn't an issue. Just some minute differences here and there. |
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Ideally I would like to see
-Gaddafi sent to the ICC, not killed in Libya by Libyans like Iraq did with Saddam.
-The rebels break into policing and military responsabilities and those not fit for the job relinquish arms. Last thing we need is another country covered in guns.
-The transitional Government incorporate members from all parts of Libya and all tribes
-A democratic election with UN observers carried out within a year of Gaddafi being arrested
-Nato suspend its air campaign and move to help the Libyan Government become accountable to the Libyan people
-Oil production restart and the international community pay good money for the oil so that Libya is restored to her former glory if not more wealthy.
-Religious freedom's enshrined in the Constitution and protected by the Government. To ensure people of all faiths are respected and treated as equals.
- Libya install a term limit on the President so that future President's could never serve indefinatly
These are my main hopes for Libya. I would love for Libya to become a beacon of freedom in the middle east. More so even then Tunisia and Egypt. But all three countries heading for democracy and hopefully enshrining freedom's and such in their constitution's will make the world a much better place!
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| Joelcool7 said: These are my main hopes for Libya. I would love for Libya to become a beacon of freedom in the middle east. More so even then Tunisia and Egypt. But all three countries heading for democracy and hopefully enshrining freedom's and such in their constitution's will make the world a much better place! |
It's gonna be a long time before that happens. But for now, think of these revolts as a means of exposing the real enemies to the region.
However, if we are truly going to see to a peaceful region, the Palestine-Israel conflict needs to be resolved.
Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!
Kojima: Come out with Project S already!
Given how often it's been reported that smth. was "liberated" in Libya, what turned out to be plain false afterwards, I call it a bollocks. Surprised that people still have so much faith in media, that's been caught on lying multiple times already.
But anyways few points to note on the matter:
1) What's been called "assualt on Tripoli" is likely primarily French and British (probably, US are somewhere there as well) spec operation. Many times insurgents have shown their inability to capture anything much smaller in scale than Tripoli, so their success here overnight without certain help is highly doubtful.
2) That's not a "liberation" operation. Many rumors suggest that the main aim was to eliminate key figures of Libyan authority, so "hunt for Gaddafi" is still going on. It's said that Saif al-Islam and Muhammad are captured, though later it's been reported that attempt at capturing Muhammad has failed (there're even few details in those rumors which suggest that that attempt was organized not without a help of Al Jazeera journalisits who were suppose to interview Muhammad).
3) There's a reason for a hurry for NATO, UN mandate that followed UNSC resolution 1973 is coming to an end in September 30. If this "liberation" ain't gonna work I'm sure they'd vote for land operation, which is in fact is already there at least for a last month. Though it could begin much sooner after UN emergency meeting.
| mai said: Given how often it's been reported that smth. was "liberated" in Libya, what turned out to be plain false afterwards, I call it a bollocks. Surprised that people still have so much faith in media, that's been caught on lying multiple times already. But anyways few points to note on the matter: 1) What's been called "assualt on Tripoli" is likely primarily French and British (probably, US are somewhere there as well) spec operation. Many times insurgents have shown their inability to capture anything much smaller in scale than Tripoli, so their success here overnight without certain help is highly doubtful. 2) That's not a "liberation" operation. Many rumors suggest that the main aim was to eliminate key figures of Libyan authority, so "hunt for Gaddafi" is still going on. It's said that Saif al-Islam and Muhammad are captured, though later it's been reported that attempt at capturing Muhammad has failed (there're even few details in those rumors which suggest that that attempt was organized not without a help of Al Jazeera journalisits who were suppose to interview Muhammad). 3) There's a reason for a hurry for NATO, UN mandate that followed UNSC resolution 1973 is coming to an end in September 30. If this "liberation" ain't gonna work I'm sure they'd vote for land operation, which is in fact is already there at least for a last month. Though it could begin much sooner after UN emergency meeting. |
They haven't attacked Tripoli, eh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qnvj6MEbC4&feature=player_embedded
What is that, exactly?
You know, you could keep up on all the news & pictures floating out of Libya. There is a lot of information that shows non-loyalist forces in Tripoli that are certainly not spec-op forces.
Back from the dead, I'm afraid.
|
mrstickball said: They haven't attacked Tripoli, eh? |
Did I say that, no? Read carefully.
|
mrstickball said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qnvj6MEbC4&feature=player_embedded |
Was it supposed to prove smth to someone? Sorry, didn't get the message. Some random youtube video, I've seen dozens of them on the discussed matter. They're more or less indentical to each other - armed monkeys screaming "Allah, Akbar" and shooting god knows where. Want to see footage of real urban assault?
huaxiong90 said:
It's gonna be a long time before that happens. But for now, think of these revolts as a means of exposing the real enemies to the region. However, if we are truly going to see to a peaceful region, the Palestine-Israel conflict needs to be resolved. |
Israel and Palestine are... tiny, compared to the size of Lybia/Egypt, the Sinai desert that is a mere part of Egypt is almost double the size of the entirety of Israel :P
And as I said in other threads, there will only be peace between the Palestinians and Israel when there's no more religon, extremist jews (a lot of the settlers) don't have any desire for peace, and would only like to kill every Arab, while there are still a lof of extremists amogn the Palestinians who want nothing but the complete destruction of Israel.
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NachrichtenHeute/tabid/178/nid/22914/language/en-US/Default.aspx
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