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Forums - General - Are there any religions or cults that you just do not understand? With in reason.

Dodece said:
@Player

Do not confuse Atheism with Anti-Theism. While many Anti-Theists are Atheists. Not all Atheists are Anti-Theists. In the case of Atheism it is a state of indifference. In the Case of Anti-Theism it is a state of hostility. A Anti-Theist will typically view organized religion as evil, and blame said institution for the problems that ail humanity. To be terribly fair they have a really valid point. History is completely on their side. If you judge organized religion by the results.




I dont have a problem for blaiming the religious institutions, I only hate when people insult religion in general and its followers. Some of the religous institutions have comitted terrible deeds, but thos deeds always went direct against the teachings and moral code of that religion (but for every bad religous instutution there are at least 5 good ones). Also, most of these Anti-Theist dont actually critisice religion with some fair and reasonable arguments, they just like to randomly insult it with common insults. People like Asstronaut are the best example.



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Player1x3 said:
wilco said:
sapphi_snake said:
Killiana1a said:

Islam. Is it the eastern version of Mormonism where wannabe alpha males marry submissive wives who want to be abused with their misery condoned by the religious text?

How about the treatment of women wanting to be equal to men, homosexuals wanting to lead a life of dignity and adulterers expressing their marital dissatisfaction in Islam? Why is their misery and death by stoning accepted by the religion while any military movement by Israel is considered justification for jihad?

I have never understood Islam and would love to understand what I consider are gross, unapologetic hypocrisies from those who prescribe to the Islamic faith.

You are aware that christianity was like that not too long ago, right?

It still is. The words in the bible haven't changed. I actually respect modern islam more than modern christianity. Modern christianity doesn't even resemble the christianity outlined in the bible. People just take whichever bits and pieces they like and call it christianity.

According to christianity

- Women are not allowed to speak before the congregation.

- Women must cover their heads in the presence of christian males.

- Homosexuality is condemned.

People forget that christianity started out as a CULT.

Not really, those are all from Torah books, the old testament and jewish writings, which has very little to do with Christianity. Christianity is founed upon New Testament. Christianity is based upon teachings of Christ

Everything I said is from the new testament. 

Women Head covering: 1 Corinthians 11: 4-15

Homosexuality: 1 Corinthians 6: 9, Romans 1: 26-28

Also, the only thing that changed from the old testament to the new testament is most of the jewish rituals were done away with and death sentences were no longer handed out. But as a general rule if it was wrong in the old testament it continued to be wrong in the new testament.



Dodece said:
@Player

Do not confuse Atheism with Anti-Theism. While many Anti-Theists are Atheists. Not all Atheists are Anti-Theists. In the case of Atheism it is a state of indifference. In the Case of Anti-Theism it is a state of hostility. A Anti-Theist will typically view organized religion as evil, and blame said institution for the problems that ail humanity. To be terribly fair they have a really valid point. History is completely on their side. If you judge organized religion by the results.

Isn't that Agnosticism?

 

As far as history goes: Before religion came into the picture, people were killing each other over tribal conflicts...life was an Anarchy in the old days.

Humanity is just that wicked. You can't just blame it on religion.



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wilco said:
Player1x3 said:
wilco said:
sapphi_snake said:
Killiana1a said:

Islam. Is it the eastern version of Mormonism where wannabe alpha males marry submissive wives who want to be abused with their misery condoned by the religious text?

How about the treatment of women wanting to be equal to men, homosexuals wanting to lead a life of dignity and adulterers expressing their marital dissatisfaction in Islam? Why is their misery and death by stoning accepted by the religion while any military movement by Israel is considered justification for jihad?

I have never understood Islam and would love to understand what I consider are gross, unapologetic hypocrisies from those who prescribe to the Islamic faith.

You are aware that christianity was like that not too long ago, right?

It still is. The words in the bible haven't changed. I actually respect modern islam more than modern christianity. Modern christianity doesn't even resemble the christianity outlined in the bible. People just take whichever bits and pieces they like and call it christianity.

According to christianity

- Women are not allowed to speak before the congregation.

- Women must cover their heads in the presence of christian males.

- Homosexuality is condemned.

People forget that christianity started out as a CULT.

Not really, those are all from Torah books, the old testament and jewish writings, which has very little to do with Christianity. Christianity is founed upon New Testament. Christianity is based upon teachings of Christ

Everything I said is from the new testament. 

Women Head covering: 1 Corinthians 11: 4-15

Homosexuality: 1 Corinthians 6: 9, Romans 1: 26-28

Also, the only thing that changed from the old testament to the new testament is most of the jewish rituals were done away with and death sentences were no longer handed out. But as a general rule if it was wrong in the old testament it continued to be wrong in the new testament.

Nice one.



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Dodece said:
@Player

Do not confuse Atheism with Anti-Theism. While many Anti-Theists are Atheists. Not all Atheists are Anti-Theists. In the case of Atheism it is a state of indifference. 


Sounds like your confusing atheists with agnostics. Atheists are not indifferent. If you are atheist then you actively believe that God does not exists. Its a real belief, not a state of indifference. Agnostics are the ones who lean more towards indifference.



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Now as far as religions/cults that I don't understand: I can't say I understand the non-Sunni sects of Islam. 



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

wilco said:
Player1x3 said:
wilco said:
sapphi_snake said:
Killiana1a said:

Islam. Is it the eastern version of Mormonism where wannabe alpha males marry submissive wives who want to be abused with their misery condoned by the religious text?

How about the treatment of women wanting to be equal to men, homosexuals wanting to lead a life of dignity and adulterers expressing their marital dissatisfaction in Islam? Why is their misery and death by stoning accepted by the religion while any military movement by Israel is considered justification for jihad?

I have never understood Islam and would love to understand what I consider are gross, unapologetic hypocrisies from those who prescribe to the Islamic faith.

You are aware that christianity was like that not too long ago, right?

It still is. The words in the bible haven't changed. I actually respect modern islam more than modern christianity. Modern christianity doesn't even resemble the christianity outlined in the bible. People just take whichever bits and pieces they like and call it christianity.

According to christianity

- Women are not allowed to speak before the congregation.

- Women must cover their heads in the presence of christian males.

- Homosexuality is condemned.

People forget that christianity started out as a CULT.

Not really, those are all from Torah books, the old testament and jewish writings, which has very little to do with Christianity. Christianity is founed upon New Testament. Christianity is based upon teachings of Christ

Everything I said is from the new testament. 

Women Head covering: 1 11: 4-15

Homosexuality: 1 6: 9, Romans 1: 26-28

Also, the only thing that changed from the old testament to the new testament is most of the jewish rituals were done away with and death sentences were no longer handed out. But as a general rule if it was wrong in the old testament it continued to be wrong in the new testament.

Ah yes, taking Biible quotes out of contex, favorite strategy of an atheist. Did you actually proceed to read aftter Corintheus 15, or you just cherry pick the quotes you like, the same thing your menitoned in your first post?

http://www.1211ministries.com/images/St._Paul_Addresses_Problems_in_Corinth_and_Ephesus.pdf

As for Romans 1, it actually condamns ''shamefull acts'' aka LUST, not homosexuality itself. It does call homosexuality unnatural and lustfull tho. The people were condamned because of shameful acts and their lustfull and un natural deisres. The same thing for them could be said if they were lustful for the opposite sex.

And the general rule in New Testament is '' dont do anything to others that you dont wish to be done to yourself and love and respect your God''. While old testament and the jewish writings put A LOT MRE emphasis on the correct worship and behaviour, the new testament puts emphasis on the correct and orthodox beliefs, as well as morals of christ. They are very different, its only that you choose to see and read what you want to see and read



Killiana1a said:

Islam. Is it the eastern version of Mormonism where wannabe alpha males marry submissive wives who want to be abused with their misery condoned by the religious text?

How about the treatment of women wanting to be equal to men, homosexuals wanting to lead a life of dignity and adulterers expressing their marital dissatisfaction in Islam? Why is their misery and death by stoning accepted by the religion while any military movement by Israel is considered justification for jihad?

I have never understood Islam and would love to understand what I consider are gross, unapologetic hypocrisies from those who prescribe to the Islamic faith.

Good questions, I'll try to explain some of them to you (warning, this might be a long one!):

Women: The views you're expressing here about women are completely false and possibly provoked by what you've been seeing in the media recently (ie: women being mistreated, covering themselves in hijab, etc). Before the time where Islam was "created", women were treated like animals used only for sex and trafficking. Islam actually paved the way for women to live equal lives when women had none. Before any of the rules of Islam were established (such as prayers), the two main components Propet Muhammad taught was a belief in one God (Allah means God in Arabic), and to have respect; respect for elders and for women. In Islam it is actually frowned upon for a man to talk to a non-blood related woman while making eye contact, for it shows disrespect. Men are supposed to look down in the presense of the woman and talk to her kindly. Also, the Quran gives women many perks that it doesn't give men, such as a guarantee to heaven for a good Muslim mother (there's nothing like that for the father). No where in the Quran does it say that women should cover up their heads and faces; those are things created by culture.

Moving to present times, most of what you hear about women are from countries such as Afghanistan, Libya, Iran, etc. You must realize that those countries are underdeveloped and have poor governmental structure. Women being treated badly in those countries has nothing to do with religion, rather with the country struggling. There was a time in the US where women were treated with unequality too, and that was because we hadn't established proper laws for giving women equal rights (it is within male nature to be dominant). Many of the countries you constantly hear about in the media are either new, or underdeveloped. For example, the government in Afghanistan has always been extremely weak, this has helped groups like the Taliban to spread their reign over the country. Women cover themselves up and halt from basic advancement (like education) because they are afraid of the Taliban and the rules they've spread. If you look in contrast to countries like Pakistan, Dubai and Abu Dhabi, you'll be amazed at how liberal and educated women are. In Pakistan there are actually more female doctors and engineering emerging than men. And these women are marrying men based on love, not the submissive forcefulness that you see/hear about in the media. In conclusion, it is the country and the politics that create unequality, not religion. If you have more detailed question about women in Islam, feel free to ask!

Homosexuals: You are correct about this one; Homosexuality is a sin in Islam. But it is more of a universal thing between the three major religions because homosexuality is not accepted in both Christianity and Judaism.

Adultery is not acceptable in any religion and it is frowned upon by society as well. I'm not sure what you're asking here.

Stoning: Once again, I don't understand this question; stoning to death is not acceptable in Islam. I mean, back when Islam was created, the non-believers would stone Muslims to death or crush them in boulders for believing in God. Killing in Islam is a major sin, however if you are doing it as self defense (ie: the person is about to kill you), then you are obviously allowed to act on your natural instincts. I believe you've heard this "stoning to death" somewhere, so I'd like to know the source of your question so that I can better form my answer.

Jihad: This is probably the most misused term. Jihad literally translates to "to strive for". In Islam, Jihad would be a mother striving to keep her children healthy; a father striving to support his family by going to work; a muslim striving to be faithful by attending friday prayer. That is what Jihad is. There is also a military application of it, something that Osama Bin Laden did. It is for a muslim to travel to another muslim country that is being invaded by non-muslims. Osama did this for Afghanistan during the time when the Soviets were trying to invade Afghanistan. And that's it. That is Jihad and nothing more. Now the terrorists are freakin' blowing this term out of proportion, as they are claiming to do Jihad by killing Americans because they believe the Americans are invading Afghanistan. That is false and it is the incorrect usage of Islam (then again, the terrorists aren't muslim). As for the Israeli conflict, I think you can easily deduce why and military movement by them is jurisdiction for Jihad; a lot of the tension has to do with the political hatred between Jews and Muslims. But the Israeli closure policies also make it difficult for Palestini Muslims to reach places of worship. That is reason enough for Jihad.

If you have any more questions, please ask.



The part in Christianity (Catholics?) where they say that priests must remain celibate, but condone allowing them to have sexual relations with little boys.



Player1x3 said:
I dont understand atheism. Its followers arent supposed to care about religion at all, yet they brag and complain about it more than most of religious people I know, both internet and real life, and most of them are just as self righteous, vocal and ''throat pushing'' about their beliefs as the other religious people they accuse of

Limit yourself to religions. This post if off topic.



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