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Forums - General - Are there any religions or cults that you just do not understand? With in reason.

padib said:
Sapphi, can you get me some links/articles on it pls? I still can't find items online about it (jewish money-business in the middle-ages).

Even if it is a stereotype, doesn't make it less true. I'm half lebanese and it's a stereotype of us, like the jews, that we are strong on merchandising. Doesn't make it bad, doesn't make it untrue, no blame required. You seem to want to blame Christians at any occasion you find, what's up with that?

I'm going to try to search for some links later, and if I find nothing relevant I'll search my uni courses and give you the name of some books.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

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Rath said:


I'll be honest that Wicca does confuse me more than most religions. It's such a contrived religion. It was completely invented in the 1920's based on erroneous research. But while I don't understand it I realise that unlike dangerous cults it's a rather benign religion.

Paganism is a broad term, but religions such as Druidism I understand much more than Wicca. They're based on ancient beliefs that made up the human understanding of the world at the time.

True, but it's not so much like that anymore, a lot of Wiccans are solitary. They do their own research and incorporate whatever makes sense. I suppose it's a reason I like it, since you chose what makes sense to you and no one tells you off. But yeah, even if Gardner was erroneous, he did revive it, at least. He made it possible for people to rediscover it and have an alternative religion.

But yeah, right now I'm just a Pantheist with great respect for nature. It's just that Paganism and Wicca fascinate me. I really like to read about them.

Ok, I understand the Trinity now (thank you Player1x3) but it still doesn't make sense to me. I do respect Jesus though and see the appeal to follow his teachings.



padib said:
Player1x3 said:
padib said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:

Honestly, I dont know why I even botherd. No matter what link I post, you would just dismiss them as usual, cuz I dont think anything can ever remove your huge delusional hatred for everything christian. That kind of attempt is  out of human possability

padib actually understood what I was telling him (he still didn't agree, or want to admit the truth, but he at least understood me). You appearently seem to be incapable of this, and since I have no interest in 'enlightening' you, I won't bother with further explanations.

I read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mit_brennender_Sorge and I don't see how they countered your argument. Player, take your time to find relevant counter-points. Mind you, I didn't have the chance to read the other link. The encyclical though was not related to that point he was making:

"Catholics are responsable for the anit-jewish sentiment that existed in Germany and Europe as a whole. The Holocaust is basically the the culmination of the persecution of Jews that the Pope ordered in the Middle Ages."

It would be a good point against one of the things he said earlier when his position was less clear:

"the persecution of Jews (actually, the hatred of Jews is largely due to christianity, and while the Holocaust wasn't directly caused by christians, the unpopularity of the Jews was their doing, along with the unpopularity of gays, another persecuted group during the holocaust)."

But even then it's followed by the limiting clarification "actually, the hatred of Jews is largely due to christianity, and while the Holocaust wasn't directly caused by christians, the unpopularity of the Jews was their doing".

To be truthful though, and here is where I read up on this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism#Expulsions_from_France_and_England), even this claim above is not completely fair. Anti-semitism was a sentiment shared by many societies and groups within societies. An example from my link above is royalty (motivated by greed). To blame it all on the ignorant Chritians of the time is very one-sided.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4191117

Maybe you read it more carefully and see what points i actualy adressed, especially the 2nd one.

You: to even suggest that catholicism caused this is totally ignorant of what actually happened. If anything, Hitler created the adoration of himself, which Christianity in any form would consider idolatry.      

sapphi_snake: Catholics are responsable for the anit-jewish sentiment that existed in Germany and Europe  (MEANING: CAtholics are responsible for the growth of anti semetisam in Germany and europe (I was only adressing the part about germany) 

CUT!

Me (Player): Misunderstood sapphi and skipped over the word existed. He was talking about the past, not the present.

End cut

Me: Posts a link of a view of catholic church on german anti semetism

sapphi_snake: The Holocaust is basically the the culmination of the persecution of Jews that the Pope ordered in the Middle Ages. (Meaning: Holocaust is connected to midle ages persecution

Me: Posts a link that shows Holocaust had nothing to do with christinity

see inserts ^


I do KNOW he is talking about the past, the links I posted adress the issue of nazi germany and anti semitisam. Nazi Germany and anti semitisam in it are in the past, no?



padib said:
cool

Sent you a PM with different sources.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Cirio said:
Killiana1a said:

Islam. Is it the eastern version of Mormonism where wannabe alpha males marry submissive wives who want to be abused with their misery condoned by the religious text?

How about the treatment of women wanting to be equal to men, homosexuals wanting to lead a life of dignity and adulterers expressing their marital dissatisfaction in Islam? Why is their misery and death by stoning accepted by the religion while any military movement by Israel is considered justification for jihad?

I have never understood Islam and would love to understand what I consider are gross, unapologetic hypocrisies from those who prescribe to the Islamic faith.

Good questions, I'll try to explain some of them to you (warning, this might be a long one!):

Women: The views you're expressing here about women are completely false and possibly provoked by what you've been seeing in the media recently (ie: women being mistreated, covering themselves in hijab, etc). Before the time where Islam was "created", women were treated like animals used only for sex and trafficking. Islam actually paved the way for women to live equal lives when women had none. Before any of the rules of Islam were established (such as prayers), the two main components Propet Muhammad taught was a belief in one God (Allah means God in Arabic), and to have respect; respect for elders and for women. In Islam it is actually frowned upon for a man to talk to a non-blood related woman while making eye contact, for it shows disrespect. Men are supposed to look down in the presense of the woman and talk to her kindly. Also, the Quran gives women many perks that it doesn't give men, such as a guarantee to heaven for a good Muslim mother (there's nothing like that for the father). No where in the Quran does it say that women should cover up their heads and faces; those are things created by culture.

Moving to present times, most of what you hear about women are from countries such as Afghanistan, Libya, Iran, etc. You must realize that those countries are underdeveloped and have poor governmental structure. Women being treated badly in those countries has nothing to do with religion, rather with the country struggling. There was a time in the US where women were treated with unequality too, and that was because we hadn't established proper laws for giving women equal rights (it is within male nature to be dominant). Many of the countries you constantly hear about in the media are either new, or underdeveloped. For example, the government in Afghanistan has always been extremely weak, this has helped groups like the Taliban to spread their reign over the country. Women cover themselves up and halt from basic advancement (like education) because they are afraid of the Taliban and the rules they've spread. If you look in contrast to countries like Pakistan, Dubai and Abu Dhabi, you'll be amazed at how liberal and educated women are. In Pakistan there are actually more female doctors and engineering emerging than men. And these women are marrying men based on love, not the submissive forcefulness that you see/hear about in the media. In conclusion, it is the country and the politics that create unequality, not religion. If you have more detailed question about women in Islam, feel free to ask!

Homosexuals: You are correct about this one; Homosexuality is a sin in Islam. But it is more of a universal thing between the three major religions because homosexuality is not accepted in both Christianity and Judaism.

Adultery is not acceptable in any religion and it is frowned upon by society as well. I'm not sure what you're asking here.

Stoning: Once again, I don't understand this question; stoning to death is not acceptable in Islam. I mean, back when Islam was created, the non-believers would stone Muslims to death or crush them in boulders for believing in God. Killing in Islam is a major sin, however if you are doing it as self defense (ie: the person is about to kill you), then you are obviously allowed to act on your natural instincts. I believe you've heard this "stoning to death" somewhere, so I'd like to know the source of your question so that I can better form my answer.

Jihad: This is probably the most misused term. Jihad literally translates to "to strive for". In Islam, Jihad would be a mother striving to keep her children healthy; a father striving to support his family by going to work; a muslim striving to be faithful by attending friday prayer. That is what Jihad is. There is also a military application of it, something that Osama Bin Laden did. It is for a muslim to travel to another muslim country that is being invaded by non-muslims. Osama did this for Afghanistan during the time when the Soviets were trying to invade Afghanistan. And that's it. That is Jihad and nothing more. Now the terrorists are freakin' blowing this term out of proportion, as they are claiming to do Jihad by killing Americans because they believe the Americans are invading Afghanistan. That is false and it is the incorrect usage of Islam (then again, the terrorists aren't muslim). As for the Israeli conflict, I think you can easily deduce why and military movement by them is jurisdiction for Jihad; a lot of the tension has to do with the political hatred between Jews and Muslims. But the Israeli closure policies also make it difficult for Palestini Muslims to reach places of worship. That is reason enough for Jihad.

If you have any more questions, please ask.


Taqqya at its finest.

Please people never believe a Muslim, especially when he says something like "killing is a major sin blabla" its only a sin to kill muslims but not non-muslims (kuffar).

Read the Quran for yourself, I did and everything muslims told me were lies..



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^ You're trying too hard. How's your friend Anders Breivik doing, btw?



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huaxiong90 said:

^ You're trying too hard. How's your friend Anders Breivik doing, btw?


Are you f***ing kidding me?! Comparing me to that bastard because i dont like Islam really much based on what I read in the Quran and the hadiths?!

Freedom of speach anyone?

Youre a joke, really....

EDIT:

I see a pattern with you muslims, everytime I or someone I know critices islam, youre angry that someone dares to say anything about your religion and insult the one whove done it with something like racist, nazi or something similiar.

I can insult christianity openly, I can say jews try to take over the world but nobody will attack me, because the adherents of these religions are peaceful, but everytime i say something true unpleaseant about islam, muslims get offensive and non-muslims get indignant because of political correct reasons. Its ridicilious.

But I know which direction this "discussion" will go, so I just want to tell every non-muslim.

READ THE QURAN if you want to know about Islam PLEASE and you will understand people like me...

im off...



Fedor Emelianenko - Greatest Fighter and most humble man to ever walk the earth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVVrNOQtlzY

ProdigyBam said:
huaxiong90 said:

^ You're trying too hard. How's your friend Anders Breivik doing, btw?


Are you f***ing kidding me?! Comparing me to that bastard because i dont like Islam really much based on what I read in the Quran and the hadiths?!

Freedom of speach anyone?

Youre a joke, really....

EDIT:

I see a pattern with you muslims, everytime I or someone I know critices islam, youre angry that someone dares to say anything about your religion and insult the one whove done it with something like racist, nazi or something similiar.

I can insult christianity openly, I can say jews try to take over the world but nobody will attack me, because the adherents of these religions are peaceful, but everytime i say something true unpleaseant about islam, muslims get offensive and non-muslims get indignant because of political correct reasons. Its ridicilious.

But I know which direction this "discussion" will go, so I just want to tell every non-muslim.

READ THE QURAN if you want to know about Islam PLEASE and you will understand people like me...

im off...

*Sigh* Maybe not to the same extreme, but it's the same rhetoric. I was just trying to show you that I can make sweeping generalizations too.

Look, why are you trying to force your interpretations onto us and label us as liars and evil? And more importantly, how come you're using the word Taqiyya when it's a Shia Islam practice, whom don't constitute the majority of Muslims (that's not to say modern Sunnis are clean either, but it has nothing to do with the religion)? I can't help but question if you really did do your research.

I don't care if you hate the religion, I really don't. But when you start calling us liars despite the fact that the evidence is right there, that's where I have a problem. That's not criticizing Islam. That's openly attacking its followers.

And btw, I can argue that there's stronger censorship on antisemitism than on Islamophobia. But that's not the point.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

spurgeonryan said:
Player1x3 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Player1x3 said:


Also calling him and all catholics a pedophiles and child molestesr? Thats also, ok than? Please stop spewing crap. They are both the same, oly you are biased to your fellow militant fundamentalists.

And btw, the spanish constitution says that thier governmant would fund ANY religious event, not only christian. And Pope's vist will actually bring a lot of money to spanish economy, so agian, sad angry atheist only pretoested because it was a christian gathering

When an organization harbors and protects paedophiles, this tends to have a certain effect on it's image. And the Government shouldn't be funding ANY religious events (the so-called economical benefits have been debunked in another thread).

Catholic church is more than just a organization. Its far beyond that. Also, calling all catholics pedophiles is just as good as calling all gays demons and reffer to them as fags

If the constitution says so, than they must and they should. And economical profit hasnt been debnked at all.


That went way to far for whoever it was that said that. There are always a few in any organization who can give it a bad name. That does not make them all horrible.


exactly my point