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Forums - General - Standard & Poor's made a tiny $2 trillion mistake when rating the US economy

http://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Pages/Just-the-Facts-SPs-2-Trillion-Mistake.aspx

 

In a document provided to Treasury on Friday afternoon, Standard and Poor’s (S&P) presented a judgment about the credit rating of the U.S. that was based on a $2 trillion mistake. After Treasury pointed out this error – a basic math error of significant consequence – S&P still chose to proceed with their flawed judgment by simply changing their principal rationale for their credit rating decision from an economic one to a political one.

S&P has said their decision to downgrade the U.S. was based in part on the fact that the Budget Control Act, which will reduce projected deficits by more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years, fell short of their $4 trillion expectation for deficit reduction. Clearly, in that context, S&P considers a $2 trillion change to projected deficits to be very significant. Yet, although S&P's math error understated the deficit reduction in the Budget Control Act by $2 trillion, they found this same sum insignificant in this instance.

In fact, S&P’s $2 trillion mistake led to a very misleading picture of debt sustainability – the foundation for their initial judgment. This mistake undermined the economic justification for S&P’s credit rating decision. Yet after acknowledging their mistake, S&P simply removed a prominent discussion of the economic justification from their document.

In their initial, incorrect estimates, S&P projected that the debt as a share of GDP would rise rapidly through the middle of the decade, and they cited this as a primary reason for a downgrade.

In S&P’s corrected estimates – which lowered S&P's projection of future deficits by $2 trillion over 10 years and lowered S&P's estimate of debt as a share of GDP in 2021 by 8 percentage points - public debt is much more stable.

Note: Data are taken from the two separate versions of S&P estimates sent to Treasury on Friday.

The error came about because S&P took the amount of deficit reduction CBO calculated from the Budget Control Act and applied it to the wrong starting point, or “baseline.”

Specifically, CBO calculated that the Budget Control Act, including its discretionary caps, would save $2.1 trillion relative to a “baseline” in which current discretionary funding levels grow with inflation.

S&P incorrectly added that same $2.1 trillion in deficit reduction to an entirely different “baseline” where discretionary funding levels grow with nominal GDP over the next 10 years. Relative to this alternative “baseline,” the Budget Control Act will save more than $4 trillion over ten years – or over $2 trillion more than S&P calculated. (The baseline in which discretionary spending grows with nominal GDP is substantially higher because CBO assumes that nominal GDP grows by just under 5 percent a year on average, while inflation is around 2.5 percent a year on average.

The impact of this mistake was to dramatically overstate projected deficits—by $2 trillion over 10 years. As anybody who has followed the fiscal discussions knows, a change of this magnitude is very significant. Nonetheless, S&P did not believe a mistake of this magnitude was significant enough to warrant reconsidering their judgment, or even significant enough to warrant another day to carefully re-evaluate their analysis.

S&P acknowledged this error – in private conversations with Treasury on Friday afternoon and then publicly early Saturday morning. In the interim, they chose to issue a downgrade of the US credit rating.

Independent of this error, there is no justifiable rationale for downgrading the debt of the United States. There are millions of investors around the globe that trade Treasury securities. They assess our creditworthiness every minute of every day, and their collective judgment is that the U.S. has the means and political will to make good on its obligations. The magnitude of this mistake – and the haste with which S&P changed its principal rationale for action when presented with this error – raise fundamental questions about the credibility and integrity of S&P’s ratings action.

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This is about 15% of the US GDP.

How can a private, for-profits company rule over elected governments? Especially when they make mistakes like these...

All these companies are clueless, before and during the crisis, they just can't predict anything.

How can they have so much power. Is capitalism devouring democracy? I'm not against capitalism (it has worked fine so far) but democracy comes first, and I think we're reaching a point were big companies have more power than the democratically elected governments.



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haha yeah today in class my professor was so pissed off on this and was going on and on ..I find it funny...and tragic



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...Because the outlook on the US economy as per the credit downgrade didn't require the $2 trillion-dollar mistake to have us downgraded.

It makes a horrible situation look a fraction better.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Let's put the Standard & Poor knuckleheads on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" and see how they perform



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kowenicki said:
Stabndrad and Poors, Moodys etc etc.... all piss poor at what they do and charge a fortune for the privilege.



did Moodys downgrade th US as well wasn't aware of that.



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The United States federal government is like a household that earns $60,000 per year, while spending $90,000 per year, and has a net debt of $300,000 ...

Regardless of the projections of where they will be a decade from now, the United States federal government's bonds are not a AAA investment; and I would argue AA+ is an optimistically high rating.



So to sum up
- Bank decided to do shit with your money, produce false report and decided to sell houses to people who could not afford it, awaiting them not to be able to reimburse the loan, and make a profit because of the rising of price the m2.
- It failed totally, so bank have no money, and scare the shit out of everybody.
- States decide to lend money to bank in order to avoid chaos, then increasing their own debts
- Bank speculates on state debts, making more money, and reimbursing the money the states give them
- Notation agencies come into play (while they haven't before), say the state can't reimburse their debts

BANKS PRIVATE DEBTS HAVE BECOME PUBLIC DEBTS

BIGGEST THEFT EVER



Oh well, worse mistakes have happened.



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all these ratings are a joke that's for sure. look how they rate some european countries compared to the usa it's a joke. they rate the usa much better because they are from the usa. usa has much bigger financial problems than some countries with a much lower rating have but yeah let's try to let the world think usa is a super duper investment lol



HappySqurriel said:
The United States federal government is like a household that earns $60,000 per year, while spending $90,000 per year, and has a net debt of $300,000 ...

Regardless of the projections of where they will be a decade from now, the United States federal government's bonds are not a AAA investment; and I would argue AA+ is an optimistically high rating.


this, i still don't get how the government thinks that kind of thinking will work

 

and yea today was first i heard of this AAA, AA+ ect ratings.  What the hell are these?  why the soo many A's?  is this where the stupid ass video games got tehir AAA ratings from?  copying this?

Also I like how this company who rates us said flately "If you don't cut 4 trillion dollars you will drop" we cut only 2 trillion, and the democrats are wondering why the hell we dropped.  I mean i'm not econ expert and don't know how all this is figured out, but if someone tells me that something will happen cause an effect, i'm not confused on when that happens.