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Forums - Politics - Putin: US is economic parasite on the global economy

superchunk on 03 August 2011
badgenome said:
superchunk said:
@osamanobama

I love how the current Republicans are so much anti-Obama that they completely forgot everything that happened before Obama got into office.

We had a SURPLUS when Clinton left. A FUCKING SURPLUS. Then from 2001 to 2008 the Republicans did everything in their power to massively grow government and triple the national debt. Why the hell weren't they clamoring for cuts back then to increase our way to a debt free nation? Why the hell was the first thing they did was to lower revenue and kill any chance we had at ridding the nation of this debt?

A completely pointless war.
A massive reduction in our personal rights.
A completely unnecessary and pointless tax cut that primarily helped the rich and the corporations.

Then when the economy collapsed due to many other conditions, Bush and the republicans started the windfall of payouts. They were already penned and ready to be cashed BEFORE Obama came into office. He only continued them as all the economists as well as people on both sides of the isle kept saying it was the right choice. Well, history hasn't said y or n on that one yet.

Now, all you guys scream is how its all Obama's fault. He was given the biggest shit position possible in the last, I am not even sure how many presidencies, yet its his fault?!

All I've seen since he came into office is a massive increase in Republican partisanship, extremism, and hatred. This last debt debacle proves this perfectly as Obama has continuously tried to be flexible and back of his original desires to make Republicans happy. Yet, even when they produced a one-sided argument it didn't pass their own extremist group.

I'm agree we need some big cuts and reform. However, the reforms needed will never pass the rich-protecting Republicans. On top of that we must remove the idiotic cuts from 2000 to greatly increase our revenue.

I don't see how you can claim it won't help, when it was giving us a surplus in 2000. Times have changed and republicans have massively grown the government. However, those increased revenues will also even that out.

I bet you still think Obama was born in Kenya and a secret Muslim, huh?

The problem is, you are easily as anti-Republican as osamanobama is anti-Democrat. First, you laud Clinton for giving us a surplus (what, no love for the Republican Congress who forced his hand?), but the only way we ever ran a "surplus" under Clinton was to raid Social Security. Debt that the government owes itself is still debt, and from 1998-2000 when the budget was "balanced" our debt still did nothing but increase, albeit at a slower rate.

Then, Bush and teh Republikkkinz created this massive shitstorm for poor Obama to inherit despite the fact that (1) at his big spending worst, Bush was dealing with a Democratic Congress, one which (2) included Obama who, as a guy who unfailingly voted the party line, joined the majority of Democrats in voting for all the bad shit Bush wanted, and (3) these problems were hardly foisted on Obama anyway, as he basically begged and pleaded for the nation to give him the chance to solve all the problems with his Constitutional Scholar™ brilliance and astonishing lack of real world work experience.

I won't even get into how Democrats helped Republicans hollow out civil liberties, or how with their supermajorities in Congress they failed to restore any of them despite all their pissing and moaning about 1984 this and police state that. Suffice to say, the problem with Obama isn't that he is a secret Muslim but rather that he's an explicit incompetent in the mold of his predecessor.

You're right. My post is all republican when there are plenty of dems that went along with the them. However, using that chart above in this same thread, the Senate was always under republican control through Bush's years and Obama was only a senator for the last two. So, from this point of view, I still think its completely clear that the republicans arranged all that I stated in my post. Yes, the dems should have definitely pushed back harder during Bush's years as well as forgo the push for healthcare reform in their two years as supermajority with Obama and instead fixed many of these other issues.

My point was to remind those of event they clearly forgot.. not necessarily to lay all blame on republicans. I actually vote for whomever simply appears to be the best candidate, ignoring parties. However, I really do laothe the entire Tea Party and think they are extreamists in every way.



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Viper1 on 03 August 2011
AnthonyW86 said:
Time to raise those taxes, it's the only way. Taxes revenue off the U.S. is only about 25% of GDP, while most other developed countries like Germany, Great Brittain etc. are at around 40% GDP.(with the exeption of Japan). Based on the U.S. GDP of 14.7 trillion a year(yes their public debt is now 100% of their GDP) that difference of taxe revenue acounts for 2 trillion A YEAR. I know those two can't be swapped one on one that easily but it's clear it is something the government has to work on. Because a higher taxe revenue combined with the defense budget cut is really all they need to prevent the debt from increasing.

US corporate taxes are the highest in the world to make up the difference.  And do you really want to tax people in the middle of a recession?  Yeah, that'll make their lives easier.

Government is struggling to pay bills.
People are struggling to pay bills.

If the government can increase my taxes to pay their bills, can I hit up Uncle Sam for some money to pay mine?



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Kasz216 on 03 August 2011
AnthonyW86 said:
Time to raise those taxes, it's the only way. Taxes revenue off the U.S. is only about 25% of GDP, while most other developed countries like Germany, Great Brittain etc. are at around 40% GDP.(with the exeption of Japan). Based on the U.S. GDP of 14.7 trillion a year(yes their public debt is now 100% of their GDP) that difference of taxe revenue acounts for 2 trillion A YEAR. I know those two can't be swapped one on one that easily but it's clear it is something the government has to work on. Because a higher taxe revenue combined with the defense budget cut is really all they need to prevent the debt from increasing.


Problem is, the vast majority of those taxes would be on the poor and middle class, since any expert will tell you "broadening the base" is the only way to get significant income.

Do we really want to have tax levels near socialized countires levels without socialized countries socialized programs?

The rich people tax cuts the democrats want are just symbolic so later on when they have to "broaden the tax base" which is the only way to get real tax revenue, they can claim they tried everything first.



Badassbab on 03 August 2011
Kasz216 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
Time to raise those taxes, it's the only way. Taxes revenue off the U.S. is only about 25% of GDP, while most other developed countries like Germany, Great Brittain etc. are at around 40% GDP.(with the exeption of Japan). Based on the U.S. GDP of 14.7 trillion a year(yes their public debt is now 100% of their GDP) that difference of taxe revenue acounts for 2 trillion A YEAR. I know those two can't be swapped one on one that easily but it's clear it is something the government has to work on. Because a higher taxe revenue combined with the defense budget cut is really all they need to prevent the debt from increasing.


Problem is, the vast majority of those taxes would be on the poor and middle class, since any expert will tell you "broadening the base" is the only way to get significant income.

Do we really want to have tax levels near socialized countires levels without socialized countries socialized programs?

The rich people tax cuts the democrats want are just symbolic so later on when they have to "broaden the tax base" which is the only way to get real tax revenue, they can claim they tried everything first.

I would also add very rich people and Corporations can can afford to pay top accountants to exploit tax loopholes and deposit some of their accumulated wealth in offshore bank accounts to avoid paying their actual fair share of tax. Something Joe Public cannot afford to do nor would it be worth it if they could.






Kasz216 on 03 August 2011
Badassbab said:
Kasz216 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
Time to raise those taxes, it's the only way. Taxes revenue off the U.S. is only about 25% of GDP, while most other developed countries like Germany, Great Brittain etc. are at around 40% GDP.(with the exeption of Japan). Based on the U.S. GDP of 14.7 trillion a year(yes their public debt is now 100% of their GDP) that difference of taxe revenue acounts for 2 trillion A YEAR. I know those two can't be swapped one on one that easily but it's clear it is something the government has to work on. Because a higher taxe revenue combined with the defense budget cut is really all they need to prevent the debt from increasing.


Problem is, the vast majority of those taxes would be on the poor and middle class, since any expert will tell you "broadening the base" is the only way to get significant income.

Do we really want to have tax levels near socialized countires levels without socialized countries socialized programs?

The rich people tax cuts the democrats want are just symbolic so later on when they have to "broaden the tax base" which is the only way to get real tax revenue, they can claim they tried everything first.

I would also add very rich people and Corporations can can afford to pay top accountants to exploit tax loopholes and deposit some of their accumulated wealth in offshore bank accounts to avoid paying their actual fair share of tax. Something Joe Public cannot afford to do nor would it be worth it if they could.

Yep, which is why they need to

A) Get rid of all tax deductions

B) Tax corporations and people on how much money make in the US (Revenue wise) rather then where they are located.



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richardhutnik on 03 August 2011
Viper1 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
Time to raise those taxes, it's the only way. Taxes revenue off the U.S. is only about 25% of GDP, while most other developed countries like Germany, Great Brittain etc. are at around 40% GDP.(with the exeption of Japan). Based on the U.S. GDP of 14.7 trillion a year(yes their public debt is now 100% of their GDP) that difference of taxe revenue acounts for 2 trillion A YEAR. I know those two can't be swapped one on one that easily but it's clear it is something the government has to work on. Because a higher taxe revenue combined with the defense budget cut is really all they need to prevent the debt from increasing.

US corporate taxes are the highest in the world to make up the difference.  And do you really want to tax people in the middle of a recession?  Yeah, that'll make their lives easier.

Government is struggling to pay bills.
People are struggling to pay bills.

If the government can increase my taxes to pay their bills, can I hit up Uncle Sam for some money to pay mine?

How about hitting up your employer?  After all, since employers are supposed to be able to ALWAYS raise their prices whenever their taxes go up, you shold also be able to demand a raise from them to whenever your costs go up, right?



mjk45 on 03 August 2011

I wonder if this was another country not named USA would we see the IMF clamouring for radical cuts, every where else its slash slash slash and the rich get richer and the poor get the picture.



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Viper1 on 03 August 2011
richardhutnik said:
Viper1 said:

US corporate taxes are the highest in the world to make up the difference.  And do you really want to tax people in the middle of a recession?  Yeah, that'll make their lives easier.

Government is struggling to pay bills.
People are struggling to pay bills.

If the government can increase my taxes to pay their bills, can I hit up Uncle Sam for some money to pay mine?

How about hitting up your employer?  After all, since employers are supposed to be able to ALWAYS raise their prices whenever their taxes go up, you shold also be able to demand a raise from them to whenever your costs go up, right?

You go try that.  Let us know how that turned out.  The rest of us will be taking bets on the future of your employment.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

richardhutnik on 03 August 2011
Viper1 said:
richardhutnik said:
Viper1 said:

US corporate taxes are the highest in the world to make up the difference.  And do you really want to tax people in the middle of a recession?  Yeah, that'll make their lives easier.

Government is struggling to pay bills.
People are struggling to pay bills.

If the government can increase my taxes to pay their bills, can I hit up Uncle Sam for some money to pay mine?

How about hitting up your employer?  After all, since employers are supposed to be able to ALWAYS raise their prices whenever their taxes go up, you shold also be able to demand a raise from them to whenever your costs go up, right?

You go try that.  Let us know how that turned out.  The rest of us will be taking bets on the future of your employment.

Well, the word is that businesses always are able to pass on new taxes, that shrink their profitability, in the form of new prices.  Why wouldn't it be any different for employees?  Wait, maybe businesses aren't able to pass on new taxes in the form of increased prices, due to the marketplace preventing them from raising prices.



Viper1 on 03 August 2011
richardhutnik said:
Viper1 said:

You go try that.  Let us know how that turned out.  The rest of us will be taking bets on the future of your employment.

Well, the word is that businesses always are able to pass on new taxes, that shrink their profitability, in the form of new prices.  Why wouldn't it be any different for employees?  Wait, maybe businesses aren't able to pass on new taxes in the form of increased prices, due to the marketplace preventing them from raising prices.

The higher price doesn't shrink their profit margins unelss they don't raise the price an equivelant to match the higher tax.  And if they did dip into their profit margins, investors would drop stock pretty damn fast.

As for employees demanding a higher pay to offset an increase in income tax, go ahead and try that one.   Keep in mind that it wasn't your employer that raised your income tax so I doubt they'll be sympathetic enough to give you a raise.   Just also keep in mind they may raise prices to compensate for the higher employee pay.  And also, be sure that the pay raise doesn't bump you into a higher tax bracket...you'd actually make less money then.

And the free market doesn't prevent anyone from raising prices, it just ensures that lower prices are in their best interest. 



The rEVOLution is not being televised