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Forums - Microsoft - Gears 3 Weapon Discussion: The Sawed-Off Shotgun (SOS or DBS)

themanwithnoname on 03 May 2011
Mendicate Bias said:
themanwithnoname said:
TRios_Zen said:
PearlJam said:

This gun has ruined the game for me. It's supposed to help noobs, but what happens when someone like me uses it? That's what you call abusive, and I feel dirty every time I kill someone with that piece of shit. It's a guranteed kill if you're within a certain distance, and you don't even have to aim.

That's just wrong, and quite frankly I don't know how to fix/tweak it. Epic is notoriously stupid when it comes to balancing/removing things that break their games, even if their forums are being flooded by everyone stating the same thing. They just ban users, and constantly delete/close threads when they can't handle it.

Look at how long it took them to remove the horrible concussion grenades in Gears 2. They won't do something about it untill the player population is down to nothing.

I don't know, there are viable things Epic can do about this gun: Mendicate mentioned slightly nerfing the power and reducing the spread, I think you can limit it to a power weapon pick-up so that there are only 2 on the map at any time.  Hell I also think it should be hit or miss; either they are close enough to gib, or it misses completely, no more "one-shot down" from the SOS.

And if you know you are abusing it...let it go man!!  Don't let it control you!


Make it a power weapon or reducing its range sounds good to me. I think most "one-shot downs" are garbage anyway. I think there's way more problems with the retro lancer though, tbh. It's hip fire accuracy is ridiculous, not to mention that it gives whoever charges with it a lunge when they get near someone that really throws off anyone trying to counter with a gnasher.

You never ever counter a charging retro with a gnasher unless you are 100% sure you can down him before he gets to you. Either dive out of the way or pull out a lancer cause the majority of the time you will be impaled.

@Trios

Yea I like the idea of making it a power weapon but I think Epic wants to give us more options off initial spawn to make people with different play styles happy. They probably won't want to make it only a power weapon unless they can come up with a viable alternate as a starting weapon.


Yes, because like I said, the game gives anyone charging near an opposing player a lunge that throws your timing off. Pretty cheap, but I don't know why I'm shocked, this sort of stuff is all over the place in Gears 2.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

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mundus6 on 03 May 2011
TRios_Zen said:
Mendicate Bias said:

I generally don't have a problem with the gun because I assume everyone has a sos and I act accordingly. The problem is, like you mentioned, objective based gameplay. When everyone is forced into tight areas the gun becomes stupidly overpowered. 

Honestly it is the only thing that has annoyed me in the beta, everything else is great. I think a fix to the problem would be to reduce the area of damage for the gun. In that I mean that while the gun doesn't have much range in terms of distance, the spread of the shotgun is ridiculous. I've had people looking almost perpindicular to me and still downing me with a single shot. Decrease the spread and tighten the reticule while keeping the range severely limited and maybe it will fix the problem.

I agree that I approach corners with a lot more trepidation now, thinking that hiding behind each one is some douche with an SOS.  But genrally speaking now that isn't how I die by the SOS, it's when I'm engaging someone ELSE and the SOS gets me from a blind-side (or in the objective based modes).

I hear you with them slight nerfing the power, but what about just making it a pick-up weapon, like the boltok?  One for each spawn side, that way there are only ever two of them running around the map at once?


I've been doing this since Gears 1 with gnasher and you still can in this game you can even use the chainsaw or a grenade tag for this. The sawed off only really shines when you down an opponent with your assault rifle and then switch to SOS and wait for some idiot to go for the revive.



TRios_Zen on 03 May 2011

Sorry folks, life-called and I had to be away; let me see here:

@Mendicate:  I hear you 'bout Epic - I am interested to see what, if any changes are made to weapons after the beta.

@Noname: Yes, the Retro hip-fire is crazy dangerous, I can see them slightly nerfing that as well, though I admit given my preferred play style (I like to get in close) my default layout is gnasher/retro.  That's a powerful combination in mid-to-close range.

Regarding the charge though your best bet (IF you hear them, Epic HAS to fix the sound, these aren't Ninja's we're talking about here) is to roll out of the way then hard aim your gnasher at them and fire a couple of shots; if they were dumb enough to stop you will probably down them as they are coming out of thier charge...  You CAN get a head shot with the gnasher on a charging fool (you get a ribbon for it too "Oscar Mike"), but timing has to be perfect.

@Mundus: Yes, engaging enemies that are otherwise engaged with your teammates has always been a viable option in all the Gears games, but I reallly think in the hands of a master the SOS is over-powered.  One shot kill some-body, wall bounce away while you re-load, then return to one-shot kill someone else.  Rinse, repeat ad-nauseum.

Good discussion folks, thanks.  I'm off to play the beta tonight, but maybe we can talk about it more tomorrow.  Peace.



richardhutnik on 03 May 2011
TRios_Zen said:
 

Just last night I had two teammates defending the "hill" for our last ten point and they were rushed by 4 out of 5 of the opposing team.  It was going to be a massacre, but I was just rolling up on the battle right behind that group of 4, who were all clsutered together around the "hill" to cap it.  got in behind them, one shot killed three and downed the 4th.  I meatsheilded him and capped the hill for the win.  man I got to tell ya, I even felt cheap after that.  Like I needed to bathe or something.

Wow, I had a flashback to people complaining about camping in FPS titles, and individuals who implemented mods to prevent people sniping/camping on servers (Lithium something I think it was called).  What see here is what looked like superior tactics on people who clustered together.  In case of sniping, someone gets in a superior tactical position that they can get easy kills.  Unless the map is badly made, I see both what you did and the sniper, as sound tactical play.

I recall one map where there was a good buzzsaw weapon in a mod (shot buzzsaws) and I held a position and people kept running into the same room and I would get easy kills.  I was told, "You are camping!" and complained a lot.  Why do people who play stupid argue for changes to the game to make their stupidity more likely to win?

Anyhow, pardon my soapbox bit there.  I will get down and go now.



Shadowblind on 04 May 2011
themanwithnoname said:
Mendicate Bias said:
themanwithnoname said:
TRios_Zen said:
PearlJam said:

This gun has ruined the game for me. It's supposed to help noobs, but what happens when someone like me uses it? That's what you call abusive, and I feel dirty every time I kill someone with that piece of shit. It's a guranteed kill if you're within a certain distance, and you don't even have to aim.

That's just wrong, and quite frankly I don't know how to fix/tweak it. Epic is notoriously stupid when it comes to balancing/removing things that break their games, even if their forums are being flooded by everyone stating the same thing. They just ban users, and constantly delete/close threads when they can't handle it.

Look at how long it took them to remove the horrible concussion grenades in Gears 2. They won't do something about it untill the player population is down to nothing.

I don't know, there are viable things Epic can do about this gun: Mendicate mentioned slightly nerfing the power and reducing the spread, I think you can limit it to a power weapon pick-up so that there are only 2 on the map at any time.  Hell I also think it should be hit or miss; either they are close enough to gib, or it misses completely, no more "one-shot down" from the SOS.

And if you know you are abusing it...let it go man!!  Don't let it control you!


Make it a power weapon or reducing its range sounds good to me. I think most "one-shot downs" are garbage anyway. I think there's way more problems with the retro lancer though, tbh. It's hip fire accuracy is ridiculous, not to mention that it gives whoever charges with it a lunge when they get near someone that really throws off anyone trying to counter with a gnasher.

You never ever counter a charging retro with a gnasher unless you are 100% sure you can down him before he gets to you. Either dive out of the way or pull out a lancer cause the majority of the time you will be impaled.

@Trios

Yea I like the idea of making it a power weapon but I think Epic wants to give us more options off initial spawn to make people with different play styles happy. They probably won't want to make it only a power weapon unless they can come up with a viable alternate as a starting weapon.


Yes, because like I said, the game gives anyone charging near an opposing player a lunge that throws your timing off. Pretty cheap, but I don't know why I'm shocked, this sort of stuff is all over the place in Gears 2.


Agreed, which is why Gears 1>Gears 2 by an infinite number. Epic needs to understand that having over half of the new weapons be insta-kill guns doesn't make the game more fun. The lancer is broken as all get-out in Gears 3.



GOTY Contestants this year: Dead Space 2, Dark Souls, Tales of Graces f. Everything else can suck it.

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TRios_Zen on 04 May 2011
Shadowblind said:
themanwithnoname said:
Mendicate Bias said:
themanwithnoname said:
TRios_Zen said:

I don't know, there are viable things Epic can do about this gun: Mendicate mentioned slightly nerfing the power and reducing the spread, I think you can limit it to a power weapon pick-up so that there are only 2 on the map at any time.  Hell I also think it should be hit or miss; either they are close enough to gib, or it misses completely, no more "one-shot down" from the SOS.

And if you know you are abusing it...let it go man!!  Don't let it control you!

Make it a power weapon or reducing its range sounds good to me. I think most "one-shot downs" are garbage anyway. I think there's way more problems with the retro lancer though, tbh. It's hip fire accuracy is ridiculous, not to mention that it gives whoever charges with it a lunge when they get near someone that really throws off anyone trying to counter with a gnasher.

You never ever counter a charging retro with a gnasher unless you are 100% sure you can down him before he gets to you. Either dive out of the way or pull out a lancer cause the majority of the time you will be impaled.

@Trios

Yea I like the idea of making it a power weapon but I think Epic wants to give us more options off initial spawn to make people with different play styles happy. They probably won't want to make it only a power weapon unless they can come up with a viable alternate as a starting weapon.

Yes, because like I said, the game gives anyone charging near an opposing player a lunge that throws your timing off. Pretty cheap, but I don't know why I'm shocked, this sort of stuff is all over the place in Gears 2.

Agreed, which is why Gears 1>Gears 2 by an infinite number. Epic needs to understand that having over half of the new weapons be insta-kill guns doesn't make the game more fun. The lancer is broken as all get-out in Gears 3.

The retro is pretty powerful, I'll give you both that, and I wouldn't complain if it was nerfed a bit, but as it currently exists, it really is a viable alternative to gnasher battles. 

I *dig* the gnasher battles, those have always been fun for me and while I wouldn't pretend I'm the best at them, I can hold my own, I think.  But for those who DON'T like Gnasher battles, the Retro is the perfect weapon for thier arsenal.  You can use it against a gnasher weilding opponent and have a reasonable chance of success.  And the retro is useless at anything past mid-range.

I can understand the talk about the retro, but for me, the SOS is so much more "game-breaking" then the Retro.  I can acknowledge that that may not hold true for everyone.



themanwithnoname on 04 May 2011
TRios_Zen said:
Shadowblind said:
themanwithnoname said:
Mendicate Bias said:
themanwithnoname said:
TRios_Zen said:

I don't know, there are viable things Epic can do about this gun: Mendicate mentioned slightly nerfing the power and reducing the spread, I think you can limit it to a power weapon pick-up so that there are only 2 on the map at any time.  Hell I also think it should be hit or miss; either they are close enough to gib, or it misses completely, no more "one-shot down" from the SOS.

And if you know you are abusing it...let it go man!!  Don't let it control you!

Make it a power weapon or reducing its range sounds good to me. I think most "one-shot downs" are garbage anyway. I think there's way more problems with the retro lancer though, tbh. It's hip fire accuracy is ridiculous, not to mention that it gives whoever charges with it a lunge when they get near someone that really throws off anyone trying to counter with a gnasher.

You never ever counter a charging retro with a gnasher unless you are 100% sure you can down him before he gets to you. Either dive out of the way or pull out a lancer cause the majority of the time you will be impaled.

@Trios

Yea I like the idea of making it a power weapon but I think Epic wants to give us more options off initial spawn to make people with different play styles happy. They probably won't want to make it only a power weapon unless they can come up with a viable alternate as a starting weapon.

Yes, because like I said, the game gives anyone charging near an opposing player a lunge that throws your timing off. Pretty cheap, but I don't know why I'm shocked, this sort of stuff is all over the place in Gears 2.

Agreed, which is why Gears 1>Gears 2 by an infinite number. Epic needs to understand that having over half of the new weapons be insta-kill guns doesn't make the game more fun. The lancer is broken as all get-out in Gears 3.

The retro is pretty powerful, I'll give you both that, and I wouldn't complain if it was nerfed a bit, but as it currently exists, it really is a viable alternative to gnasher battles. 

I *dig* the gnasher battles, those have always been fun for me and while I wouldn't pretend I'm the best at them, I can hold my own, I think.  But for those who DON'T like Gnasher battles, the Retro is the perfect weapon for thier arsenal.  You can use it against a gnasher weilding opponent and have a reasonable chance of success.  And the retro is useless at anything past mid-range.

I can understand the talk about the retro, but for me, the SOS is so much more "game-breaking" then the Retro.  I can acknowledge that that may not hold true for everyone.


I'm just glad there's a lot less meleeing and two piecing in this one. Nothing annoys me more than getting meleed by someone for no other reason than its stupid auto-lock on and getting torn apart in Gears 2. I'm glad two piecing has now almost entirely disappeared.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

themanwithnoname on 04 May 2011

Alright, I have to say I'm a lot more annoyed with the sawed off shotgun after today. About 90% of my deaths came from it, many times when I wasn't even close to the guy using it. It's really freaking annoying when the entire team is using them.

On another note, why does it seem sometimes like Epic doesn't know how to put a power weapon in a map without making the area around it camper heaven? I'm looking at you, whoever designed Thrashball and Trenches. Let's give whoever has mulcher a raised platform that the only way you can go and attack him is by running up the stairs right past him and going all the way around, pray he's not paying attention and maybe you can sneak up behind him, and let's also give him a perfect angle to annhilate anyone who's coming out of the tunnels from spawn. Then, let's give whoever has the one-shot the top of a hill it takes 10 days to run across to even get to him. I just played a game that ended with an entire team camping around the one-shot. I just don't get why whoever's designing these maps doesn't understand that people don't enjoy it when somebody sits on the power weapon almost the entire freaking game and does nothing else.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

mundus6 on 04 May 2011
themanwithnoname said:

Alright, I have to say I'm a lot more annoyed with the sawed off shotgun after today. About 90% of my deaths came from it, many times when I wasn't even close to the guy using it. It's really freaking annoying when the entire team is using them.

On another note, why does it seem sometimes like Epic doesn't know how to put a power weapon in a map without making the area around it camper heaven? I'm looking at you, whoever designed Thrashball and Trenches. Let's give whoever has mulcher a raised platform that the only way you can go and attack him is by running up the stairs right past him and going all the way around, pray he's not paying attention and maybe you can sneak up behind him, and let's also give him a perfect angle to annhilate anyone who's coming out of the tunnels from spawn. Then, let's give whoever has the one-shot the top of a hill it takes 10 days to run across to even get to him. I just played a game that ended with an entire team camping around the one-shot. I just don't get why whoever's designing these maps doesn't understand that people don't enjoy it when somebody sits on the power weapon almost the entire freaking game and does nothing else.


Grenades? If the whole team is camping in one place, they are free frags. Especially on the one shot level since mortar is on the opposite side, the only reason a team is able to keep the power weapons and tactical position, is if they outplay the other team. Since its really easy to counter with either nades, boltock pistol headshots (on the guy aiming the mulcher) or good team work. Plus the mortar and the mulcher is always in a very exposed location with at least 3 sides you can get shot from, sometimes all 4.



themanwithnoname on 04 May 2011
mundus6 said:
themanwithnoname said:

Alright, I have to say I'm a lot more annoyed with the sawed off shotgun after today. About 90% of my deaths came from it, many times when I wasn't even close to the guy using it. It's really freaking annoying when the entire team is using them.

On another note, why does it seem sometimes like Epic doesn't know how to put a power weapon in a map without making the area around it camper heaven? I'm looking at you, whoever designed Thrashball and Trenches. Let's give whoever has mulcher a raised platform that the only way you can go and attack him is by running up the stairs right past him and going all the way around, pray he's not paying attention and maybe you can sneak up behind him, and let's also give him a perfect angle to annhilate anyone who's coming out of the tunnels from spawn. Then, let's give whoever has the one-shot the top of a hill it takes 10 days to run across to even get to him. I just played a game that ended with an entire team camping around the one-shot. I just don't get why whoever's designing these maps doesn't understand that people don't enjoy it when somebody sits on the power weapon almost the entire freaking game and does nothing else.


Grenades? If the whole team is camping in one place, they are free frags. Especially on the one shot level since mortar is on the opposite side, the only reason a team is able to keep the power weapons and tactical position, is if they outplay the other team. Since its really easy to counter with either nades, boltock pistol headshots (on the guy aiming the mulcher) or good team work. Plus the mortar and the mulcher is always in a very exposed location with at least 3 sides you can get shot from, sometimes all 4.


If whoever has the one shot gets hit by a mortar, they're a moron. The mortar doesn't even cover half the area where one shot is, never mind that it's a pretty easy shot to hit anyone who picks it up. There's nothing about outplaying the other team when gaining a tactical advantage consists of the entire team running en masse to the one shot because they've been getting their butts handed to them the entire game. Besides, I'm not sure how much you've played this beta, but expecting good teamwork from randoms is a hysterical proposition in Gears 2, and this beta has done nothing to change my opinion.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.