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Forums - Gaming - What worse for franchise: tiny upgrade, deviation, dumb down, "inbreeding"?

KylieDog said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
KylieDog said:

A dumbed down deviation that isn't a side/spin-off game.  Like RE4.


Sounds exactly like the transition to RE5 from RE4 to me, streamlining the invitory, making a non co-op series co-op, taking out any and all scare moments to make action scenes that are on rails shooting people on motorcycles... hrm...


You would be right if the RE5 inventory wasn't going back to the older games limits which RE4 abandoned for mass dumbed down space.

 

Adding co-op isn't dumbing anything down, though RE5 is the 4th RE game and 2nd main series title to have co-op anyway, making that wrong also.

 


Name the mainline game with co-op before RE5  

Also note I said RE5 streamlined their inventory 

Old RE inventory some things take up more space than others

RE4 Iventory where things took up more space than in the old games so having more space isn't as big of a deal when guns take up over half of it.

RE5 where any gun takes up the the exact same amount of space and then at the end of the level you get as much space as you need to store your stuff

Sounds to me you just defeated your own argument, thanks for that.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

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KylieDog said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
KylieDog said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
KylieDog said:

A dumbed down deviation that isn't a side/spin-off game.  Like RE4.


Sounds exactly like the transition to RE5 from RE4 to me, streamlining the invitory, making a non co-op series co-op, taking out any and all scare moments to make action scenes that are on rails shooting people on motorcycles... hrm...


You would be right if the RE5 inventory wasn't going back to the older games limits which RE4 abandoned for mass dumbed down space.

 

Adding co-op isn't dumbing anything down, though RE5 is the 4th RE game and 2nd main series title to have co-op anyway, making that wrong also.

 


Name the mainline game with co-op before RE5  

Also note I said RE5 streamlined their inventory 

Old RE inventory some things take up more space than others

RE4 Iventory where things took up more space than in the old games so having more space isn't as big of a deal when guns take up over half of it.

RE5 where any gun takes up the the exact same amount of space and then at the end of the level you get as much space as you need to store your stuff

Sounds to me you just defeated your own argument, thanks for that.

 

Oh wow, you use RE5s out of game inventory but not the item chests from older games, weak argument.

 

RE0, btw.


Lolz man you just keep digging this hole deeper I'm honestly starting to believe you don't even play RE and that's coming from me, a guy that sucks pretty hard at 1-4 (compared to my fanatic friends, though RE5 was really easy cause it was simply an action game unlike the rest of the series).

Taken a couple of minutes ago with my webcam, clearly states 1 player, you control two characters in a singleplayer game, that's not co-op.

 



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

richardhutnik said:
Jaos said:

What's wrong with tiny upgrades, if they're there? Provided the game is any good to begin with, that's the way to go.

Also, as long as the original game series isn't abandoned, an additional well thought out spin off is ok. If you'd always reject that, you couldn't play Mario Kart or Paper Mario.

If you can roll it out as DLC, why not go that route?  The issue is that, if it is an expansion pack type game, and they release it for full price, is it worth the money? 


I think opinions vary too much on what an expansion type game is, considering how much SMG2 was called that. Also, I'm not very keen on DLC, it often feels like it should have been included in the price in the first place.



Jaos said:
richardhutnik said:
Jaos said:

What's wrong with tiny upgrades, if they're there? Provided the game is any good to begin with, that's the way to go.

Also, as long as the original game series isn't abandoned, an additional well thought out spin off is ok. If you'd always reject that, you couldn't play Mario Kart or Paper Mario.

If you can roll it out as DLC, why not go that route?  The issue is that, if it is an expansion pack type game, and they release it for full price, is it worth the money?


I think opinions vary too much on what an expansion type game is, considering how much SMG2 was called that. Also, I'm not very keen on DLC, it often feels like it should have been included in the price in the first place.

Sometimes, there is disk issues involved.  Also, developers will face deadlines.  The game may not also end up selling well enough, not justifying the adiditonal content.  And then a game could go into different directions from the original which means that there is room for it.  Or, a major reason is dev costs, and they can get away with selling more content.  A big reason now is that, people are willing to pay for it, so you get it.  Fans can also call for more stuff and the expansion content is a way to provide it.



KylieDog said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:


Lolz man you just keep digging this hole deeper I'm honestly starting to believe you don't even play RE and that's coming from me, a guy that sucks pretty hard at 1-4 (compared to my fanatic friends, though RE5 was really easy cause it was simply an action game unlike the rest of the series).

Taken a couple of minutes ago with my webcam, clearly states 1 player, you control two characters in a singleplayer game, that's not co-op.

 


By that logic play RE5 1 player, same effect.

The exit door is that little X in the corner of your window.



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SaviorX said:
KylieDog said:


By that logic play RE5 1 player, same effect.

The exit door is that little X in the corner of your window.


I think Kyliedog is just a Rol that keeps up the character Rol creates for one single thread, Kylie just never turns that character off.

Even though I believe this... for shits and giggles

co·op·er·a·tive   (k-pr--tv, --rtv, -pr-)

adj.
1. Done in cooperation with others: a cooperative effort.

 

 

Cooperative games require cooperation with others, IE another physical being, in a means to get a similar ends which is beating a stage in a video game.  In no way is playing a singleplayer game cooperative, it defies the very definition of the word and what it means to be a co-op game.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

KylieDog said:

You forgot about Zero, admit it.

 

You're doing this to get a reaction out of people which is why you ignore facts, admit it.

 



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

RolStoppable said:

Deviation has the highest probability of destroying a franchise, so it's the worst option out of those four.

Dumb down is next in line, because there is also a good chance to piss off existing fans. It's easier to sell to existing consumers than new ones. Unlike deviation, dumbing down at least still keeps many of the same mechanics, albeit simplified.

"Inbreeding" isn't all that bad. While it means that a franchise won't be able to grow, it doesn't necessarily mean that its popularity will decrease. Games with high entry barriers have their own sort of attraction, after all.

Tiny upgrades are the best way to go, provided the core mechanics are actually good. If they are nothing special, then the franchise is bound to get stale over time.

One thing that wasn't mentioned in the original post is the approach to combine two of these design philosophies (where possible, like deviation combined with dumbing down). The result more often than not is a jack of all trades, master of none sort of thing. If you look at topselling games you'll note that they usually only do one thing really good, but they are masterful at it.

Agree. Dumbing down is the worst for my tastes, but I guess deviation can damage a franchise even more (not always, Fallout 3 for example is successful, despite quite deviated, but it was released so many years after the previous episodes that more than deviating, it rebuilt an old and missedd franchise in another direction).

I agree also with your last point, I noticed too that often these sequel design flaws come combined, to further worsen things, and this is particularly true for dumbing down often combined with deviation (a typical example, former core RPG franchises that get dumbed down also by wildly stripping them of RPG elements).



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Easily dumbing down. There are dozens and dozens of franchises which have turned to utter crap because of it.



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MaxwellGT2000 said:
KylieDog said:

You forgot about Zero, admit it.

 

You're doing this to get a reaction out of people which is why you ignore facts, admit it.

 

You say tomato,

Kylie says patato,

I say divide by Zero... and we get undefined and call the whole thing off!