By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - The Wii is not dead or dying.

LordTheNightKnight on 10 May 2011
oniyide said:

@lordtheknight cant argue with that but IMHO there are devs who make games with design first production 2nd at least teh games i play

@nitekrawler  cant argue with that PSP is great, doesnt get the respect it derserves


I find the rule of thumb is that the less "cinematic" the gameplay, the less likely it is the production values were first. That's not a judement on a game, unless it's extremely cinematic.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Around the Network
nitekrawler1285 on 10 May 2011
padib said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

@ padib.Quotes were getting too long As we all kinda agree on that aspect of the OP it's fair to take the thread as we please. We're the only ones adding.  

The reason I think failure(decline might be a better word) is the assured outcome is because Nintendo will not beat Sony and M$ at their game.  They will never even try to make the next GTA, CoD, Halo, GT etc.  They will get multiplats and that's about it.  Without their own games of that type they CANNOT compete for that auidence. Especially not when their system launches.  

Even with a $299(modest assumption considering Nintendo likes to make a profit on hardware) pricetag it will be the most expensive console on the market without anything to justify that price considering they can get a PS360 for cheaper in addition to big multiplat games like GTA and CoD plus M$ has Halo and Gears and Forza on the 360 and Sony has Uncharted, KZ, GoW and GT on the PS3. Nintendo loses the core library battle.  Since those are the types of games coming out for the system and it's more expensive it will appear toxic to the expanded audience who doesn't game already.  They are either indifferent or see it as a huge honking negative.  The Wii and DS sold because Nicole Kidman and Beyonce were advertising them and it seemed like something women could get into.  It wasnt violent but downright helpful (train my brain, or get in shape with Wii Fit get my child a pet I don't have to clean up after etc.) and quite contrary to what most non gamers think gaming is about(uberviolence and immaturity).  This will seem as grotesque as the PS360 seems to that segment of the Wii audience. 

Really the only way for Nintendo to win is to expand.  They aren't going to beat companies that can go billions in the red and have tons of studios getting better and better at creating those types of games.  Having those types of games only increases costs of production on the hardware and software side for Nintendo.  Nintendo needs it's margins if it's not going to sell like hotcakes.  The core gamer is difficult to please one.  They will only flounder trying.  

Funny, last time I checked the Wii, the weakest of all Nintendo consoles in terms of solid 3rd party support for serious games, had Monster Hunter Tri, Tatsunoko versus Capcom, Super Smash Brothers, Mad World, Conduit, Castlevania Judgement, Red Steel, Metroid Prime Corruption, Twilight Princess, all exclusives to Nintendo. It's not only the 1st party games that count, but also 3rd party exclusives, but I guess you fogot about those... Add multiplats to that and Cafe becomes a viable serious alternative to xcox and gaystation. I'm degrading them cause you waaaaay inflated them (Nintendo can't beat them at their game, are you f'ing kidding me? XBOX is 2 gens old!!!)

And lol at your wishful beyonce argument, you're obviously disconnected with the phenomenon that was the Wii. People at a University conference were talking about it in 2007 (during a software engineering conference, go figure). You're so off here, it's not even funny.


No offense but if you add the sales of most of those non nintendo titles together they hardly best any ONE of the franchises i mentioned.  I don't see any exlusives for anyone really(especially outside of first party). Were i not making dinner and voice to texting this on my phone I would just so you could see how "greatly exaggerated" I'm being.

Nicole Kidman and Beyonce were used in the US to advertise the DS with brain training and showing women that they can do something other than be sex objects like improving their smarts and that is part of what made it more welcoming to the female gamer.  CoD and GTA aren't going to do that.  Considering that the Their latest system was made strong from that very demographic you tell me whicih they should consider.



nitekrawler1285 on 10 May 2011
padib said:
nitekrawler1285 said:
padib said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

M$ has Halo and Gears and Forza on the 360 and Sony has Uncharted, KZ, GoW and GT on the PS3. Nintendo loses the core library battle. 

Monster Hunter Tri, Tatsunoko versus Capcom, Super Smash Brothers, Mad World, Conduit, Castlevania Judgement, Red Steel, Metroid Prime Corruption, Twilight Princess, Last Story, Xenoblade all exclusives to Nintendo.


No offense but if you add the sales of most of those non nintendo titles together they hardly best any ONE of the franchises i mentioned.  I don't see any exlusives for anyone really(especially outside of first party). Were i not making dinner and voice to texting this on my phone I would just so you could see how "greatly exaggerated" I'm being.

Nicole Kidman and Beyonce were used in the US to advertise the DS with brain training and showing women that they can do something other than be sex objects like improving their smarts and that is part of what made it more welcoming to the female gamer.  CoD and GTA aren't going to do that.  Considering that the Their latest system was made strong from that very demographic you tell me whicih they should consider.

Easy: Monster Hunter Tri > Forza, KZ, GOW, GT (pointless after GT3), Gears - My opinion.

Add to that it was a weak console in terms of 3rd party support, so even one of these beating the others is enough to prove you there's much room to work with and your perspective is clouded.

I understand your opinion.  

My perspective is clouded. By sales.  That overwhelmingly disagree with your opinion.  



nitekrawler1285 on 10 May 2011
padib said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

Nicole Kidman and Beyonce were used in the US to advertise the DS with brain training and showing women that they can do something other than be sex objects like improving their smarts and that is part of what made it more welcoming to the female gamer.  CoD and GTA aren't going to do that.  Considering that the Their latest system was made strong from that very demographic you tell me whicih they should consider.

They don't need to consider them because they play what they want, not what they don't want. If Saw IV is at the movies, but you like comedy and dislike horror, would you avoid going to the movies because there's stuff for other peoples' tastes there that doesn't appeal to you? Your arguments are jacked. Your money argument I understood from before (why would they pay more for the console to cater to other audiences), that made sense, but this doesn't make sense at all. I understand it could possibly confuse the different audiences, but Nintendo could easy address that with effective marketing and brand management.

I know many girls who see the advertisement for games on other consoles and form opinions about it because of them.  I have female friends who said they would never get a PS3 because they didn't like those kinds of games(They of course didn't know about games like SingStar and Buzz).  I do think Nintendo is better at marketing than Sony and might be better at doing such but I do have my reasons if only anecdotal to see it as a possible problem. 
  



scorptile on 10 May 2011
nitekrawler1285 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
nitekrawler1285 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

"Because as far as they can tell no games are coming out."

But you all are assuming that no games announced now means no games will be. People are entitled to their own opinions (why complaints about the value of a game are valid), but not to their own facts.

Until they announce more games why is it not a fact. If these titles aren't announced should we just assume they are in production? Should we just believe people other than Nintendo and maybe Ubisoft who have repeatedly seemed unintersted or unable to make software for the system have some great reason all of sudden?

I think it's smarter to not assume period as we know what it makes of you and me.  That of course just leaves us with the crappy announced software and nothing on the horizon.


But to assume the opposite is what you are doing. I'm actually stating you should wait and see. If the releases around E3 don't look any good to you, then you can call on them for the rest of the year.

So saying they have no games coming out when they don't have anything announced is assuming?  No that is just the current reality of the situation.  I don't have to wait till E3 to tell you that games are coming out for the other consoles. They are announced and I know. If Nintendo wants to change that they can but that doesn't change that as of now we know of nothing on the horizon.

now wait a minute i do recall the past two years a month or two before e3 there is no news coming out of nintendo what so ever. no games nothing. at E3 there are always really great games that get showcased and people get excited about it. what this E3 is gonna be about though is project cafe. everything else is getting ignored from the nintendo camp. if games have been announced and dated people ignore it cause of the biggest news of the year in a new console showcasing E3. so to say there are no games coming out for wii you have got to joking yourself or are against the wii in the first place. 

 

sales for wii is down to average now and yet its dying. so if the wii is dying then the ps3 and 360 are zombies that just wont go away cause they are already dead. i mean sales at where the three consoles are to me are pretty decent for this time of year. wait till xmas and boom you will see another wii jump like last year. 



dick cheney loves me, he wants to take me hunting

 

mkwii code- 1977-0565-0049

Around the Network
nitekrawler1285 on 11 May 2011
padib said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

@Onyxide 

I have moved on to portables. The PSP is my favorite PS console ever(really helps that I can Play PS1 games anywhere).  And since it will have a bunch of smartphone games only with buttons I'm pretty stoked for NGP.  Plus my Mytouch 4g emulates the older systems well in addition to having a halfway decent library of it's own.  

I will not give up on gaming however.  I am just studying to become a game designer myself as we speak so that maybe I can create something people want to play.

I mean you say it yourself the home consoles don't have compelling games for the serious gamers (or they are so few and far between that you got a PSP), so Nintendo sure has room to maneuver. Just out of curiousity what games interested you on the PSP?


For one a lot of playstation games I missed when I was younger because I couldn't get every title I wanted because someone was buying them for me.  It's the most convenient way for me to play them ( I bus alot transportation can be 2-4 hours a day for me.)

Playstation games I first played on PSP(I hacked my PSP so some of these may not be available):
I.Q.(Not that remix bs that later appeared)
Tomba 1 & 2
Umihara kawase
Vagrant Story
Trap Gunner
Hercs Adventures
RayStorm
Einhander
Mr. Driller(pure awesome sauce!)

That is of course in addition with playing games that I did enjoy on the Playstation originally and found to be even better or as good on PSP:
Soul Edge(best fighting game on PSP to this day still IMO)
Bushido Blade 1 & 2
Crash Team Racing
FFVII
FFVIII (playing triple triad on break at work was sweet and the colors used in art direction looked great on PSP screen even outside)
Abe's Odyssey
Megaman Legends 1 & 2(why didn't they bring this over stupid Capcom)
One
Unjammer Lammy
Parappa the Rapper
Tomb Raider
Crash Trilogy
Spyro
Rayman
R.E. 2 & 3
Metal slug
Castlevania symphony of the night
SF Alpha 3
MvC
Guilty Gear
Tekken 3
DOA
Brave fencer Musashi
BOF 3 & 4
Lunar SSSC
Parasite Eve 1 & 2

Then comes PSP Games i enjoy:
Echochrome (loved it)
Locco Rocco 1, 2 and midnight carnival
Patapon 
Crush
Burnout Legends
Buzz
Capcom Classics Reloaded and Remixed
Ultimate gouls and ghosts Remix
Daxter(underwhelmed but at least it was the free game with)
Def Jam Fight for NY
Exit 
Every Extend Extra
X-men Legends 2: Rise of the Apocalypse
Viewtiful Joe Red Hot Rumble
FF Tactics :War of the Lions(the cutscenes and redone dialogue were superb)
Guilty Gear Judgement (had the most beautiful 2d down the street beat em up with it)
Sega Genesis collection
sid Meirs Pirates
Mytran Wars
Soul Calibur BD(meh)
Half Minute Hero
Killzone Liberation(fun game though too brown)
Megaman powerd up
Megaman Maverick hunter x

Then PSP games I'm interested in but haven't gotten around to for whatever reason:
Cladun
Z.H.P. Unlosing Ranger vs. Darkdeath Evilman
Valkyria Chronicles 2(need to finish the first on PS3 first)
Invisimals
Knights in the Nightmare
Kingdom Hearts BBS
Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Virtua Tennis

Although I don't know that that forms a complete picture of my tastes as there are many games and systems before the PS era and on the PS2 and a couple on PS3 that I also look greatly upon. Being able to play all those games anywhere I am is quite awesome and since I commute so much I'm more likely to have the time to enjoy them.

Edited for grammar and adding notes to VC2



oniyide on 11 May 2011

@nitekrawler  japanese have been making dating games for years, if your talking about in a social context in terms of online. Myspace and FB have beaten the consoles to the punch years ago. a tooth brush game??? im sure its on Wii, hell ive seen a damn fire place simulator, thats not even a game. But you think kids will like that? If i gave a game like that to my nephews OR nieces theyll throw it right in the trash



projectcafeflop on 11 May 2011

Project cafe is dead and buried.



nitekrawler1285 on 11 May 2011
padib said:
nitekrawler1285 said:
nitekrawler1285 said:

M$ has Halo and Gears and Forza on the 360.

Were i not making dinner and voice to texting this on my phone I would just so you could see how "greatly exaggerated" I'm being.

lol at all this, seriously. Forza and Gears are boo and Halo, though good, is 1st party. In that case let's compare 1st party to 1st party, and I think Metroid Prime 3 is an excellent competitor for Halo. It failed due to a weak serious gamer fan base on Wii, which the new strategy should come to address, and could be tailored to that audience a little better I'll admit, again something the new strategy should come to address, at the very least with time. I won't comment much on the PS-exclusives cause I don't want to get my head eaten off by PS fans. The only one I'm a fan of is Uncharted, and I was curious of Last Guardian as well, as I liked Ico and found Shadow of the Colossus (though boring) at least grandiose and the boss battles surreal and complex/intricate .

Well we can but we already know what sales a Nintendo console will have if it only has core Nintendo titles (somewhere around 22 to 34 mil  maybe a little higher to account for population growth) 

I don't think a single player FPS compares to Halo at all in anyones mind except maybe yours.  Nintendo just doesn't care about online to make it a competitor and this attitude is part of the reason why I don't see them as able to compete in that software arena.  Nintendo has nothing on Xbox Live and that profitable ecosystem M$ built since day one is a large part of the reason why those online shooters do so well on the Xbox. M$ has claimed America and I don't see Nintendo able to take that back with their mindset about making online games. Especially not with a console that's more expensive, that's only marginally more powerful and probably not as well an implemented online system.

Third Party support is much more interesting to discuss as it's why Nintendo is trying this strategy in the first place and banking on finally get the big boys on their side Because they want sales like this: 
Gears 1:                                                             5.94 mil
RDR:                                                                    4.24 mil
CoD 4:MW:                                                        8.48 mil
AC:B:                                                                   3.61 mil 
Total:                                                                  22.27 mil

MGS4:                                                                 5.22 mil
CoD 4:MW:                                                        5.65 mil
AC:B:                                                                   3.32 mil
RDR:                                                                    4.24 mil 
Total:                                                                  18.43 mil

Not 3rd party sales like this:
Monster Hunter Tri:                                       1.86 mil
Tatsunoko versus Capcom:                            0.54 mil
Mad World :                                                      0.63 mil
Conduit:                                                              0.54 mil (I added the sales of the sequel to be kind)
Castlevania Judgement:                                 0.10 mil
Red Steel:                                                           1.20 mil(1.63 mil if you add the sequel)
Last Story:                                                          0.17 mil
Xenoblade:                                                         0.16 mil  
Total:                                                                   5.63 mil (including RS2 and C2)

I chose the lowest selling CoD, AC, put in RDR instead of GTA.  You can lol all you want to at that.  This comes from a person who would prefer TvC over all those PS360 games I listed(But i prefer MvC3 to TvC). I didn't exagerrate anything.  Nintendo obviously think it's important or they wouldn't be doing what they are.  I just see it as too little too late.  The reason I mentioned GT, Forza, Halo, and KZ is becuase these are more the types of games I see customers of the above 3rd party titles are more likely to check out than SSB, LoZ:TP, MP3.  There is a synergy there.



Brainslug on 11 May 2011