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Forums - General - Race/Class/Gender/etc. Do they still matter?

Games4Fun said:
mrstickball said:

No, not really.

It matters only when people want to take it as a problem.

For example, your statement about men/women making different money is totally wrong. It's been proven for awhile that men and women, provided they do the same work, will get paid the same.

As for your claim about race and drugs, the bureau of Justice disagrees. As per their statistics, many more blacks are jailed for drug dealing because there are simply more black drug dealers than whites in comparison to users. http://www.jrsa.org/ibrrc/using-data/data_quality/data_elements/drug/drug_examples.shtml

As per their data, 69% of all incarcerated for drug offenses are by whites. But for dealers, its a 50/50 split between blacks and whites.

In the end, the reason (I think) they are still issues are because people still push them as problems, and complain about them. When we stop seeing people as male/female/black/white/straight/gay, we can judge people based on quality and character, which is a far more useful metric for defining worth.


Unfortunetly race does indeed still matter for the States as a whole. Now, thats not to say ever single person is racist as that is far from the truth but lets have a small look at the income levels of different races.

 

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0689.pdf

 

look at the difference in thoose that make less than 15k now look over at the median income between black and whites. That is a huge difference it shows race is still a problem on at least this level. Why are there such big differences among the different races in pay?


Wealth gap.  I could get into a long explination... but the easiest way to explain it is rolling two balls down a hill.

They're both the same, but you hold one back a bit as it's rolling down.

Then you stop holding it back.

The gap still remains, and it still grows, even without things holding it back... because of the building momentum.

Racisms and Sexism are still a problem in todays society but not in direct discrimination type way so much as the aftereffects or racism via wealth effects and in general, the socialization of culture.


Men are going to be pushed towards atheletic and math based careers when they are young.  Women are going to be pushed towards "woman's careers" caring careers and being a house wife.

Black people are going to be pushed towards "physical labors."  while Asians will be pushed towards certain intellectual careers. (It's why Asians actually have a higher Median income then whites.)

So.. racism and sexism are an issue, but it's a much more intracite issue then you'd think... it's more about pre-built culture then one group activly TRYING to hold down another.

I mean you see white people or asian people in a store... you watch the white people more closely right?

One thing that shows the surprising issues of this... is even black people watch black people more closely.



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KungKras said:
sapphi_snake said:
KungKras said:

In a good RPG, they do matter.

Then all JRPGs are bad in your opinion?

Forgot about them. Didn't think anyone would analyze a joke comment :P

EVERYTHING you say can and WILL be used against you!



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

I want to fuck a dirty Japanese girl, and I should not have to worry about being judged.



WHERE IS MY KORORINPA 3

Kasz216 said:


Wealth gap.  I could get into a long explination... but the easiest way to explain it is rolling two balls down a hill.

They're both the same, but you hold one back a bit as it's rolling down.

Then you stop holding it back.

The gap still remains, and it still grows, even without things holding it back... because of the building momentum.

Racisms and Sexism are still a problem in todays society but not in direct discrimination type way so much as the aftereffects or racism via wealth effects and in general, the socialization of culture.


Men are going to be pushed towards atheletic and math based careers when they are young.  Women are going to be pushed towards "woman's careers" caring careers and being a house wife.

Black people are going to be pushed towards "physical labors."  while Asians will be pushed towards certain intellectual careers. (It's why Asians actually have a higher Median income then whites.)

This is so true, and sadly it leads to terrible situations when many people are forced into fields they dislike and are forced to ignore their own talents.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Gnac said:

I want to fuck a dirty Japanese girl, and I should not have to worry about being judged.

As long as you don;t get her pregnant it's all good!



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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mrstickball said:

If I send my kid to private school, I still have to pay taxes to the district AND pay for the private school. In fact, I just sent in my tax payment to the district - $257.00 USD (that was just in income taxes, I also pay property taxes on my apartment which are about $1,800/yr). So if I send my kid to the private school I want, I must pay ~$5,000 USD/yr for education and still pay thousands in taxes per year for education. The better way to do it would be to give each child a voucher to redeem for 1 year of education at the facility of their parents choice. That way, if a child wants a private education, they do not need to pay for it (provided the cost is within public cost ranges, which in Ohio, private schools are a fraction of the price of public schools).

That is where I find the issue. Without vouchers, there is no competition for a student's well being. That leads to worsening standards and higher cost of education. America spends the 2nd most in dollars for education, but we rank around #30 in terms of math, science and reading. We're getting butchered by Europe and Asia.

The ideea is that every public institution should offer a certain standard of education. I'm not sure this will lead to a better situation. Won't the schools that are worse off now, become even worse in the future? And wouldn't the kids that end up stuck going there have it even worse? Not all parents can send their kids to schools on the other side of town. Plus, how will schools accept students? What will be the criteria?

At the end of the day the Government should make sure that all public institutions opperate at a certain standard, and that all kids can get a good education.

As for the tax thing, you may never need the police, but you still pay taxes taht go to them.It's the same thign with public education.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:


Wealth gap.  I could get into a long explination... but the easiest way to explain it is rolling two balls down a hill.

They're both the same, but you hold one back a bit as it's rolling down.

Then you stop holding it back.

The gap still remains, and it still grows, even without things holding it back... because of the building momentum.

Racisms and Sexism are still a problem in todays society but not in direct discrimination type way so much as the aftereffects or racism via wealth effects and in general, the socialization of culture.


Men are going to be pushed towards atheletic and math based careers when they are young.  Women are going to be pushed towards "woman's careers" caring careers and being a house wife.

Black people are going to be pushed towards "physical labors."  while Asians will be pushed towards certain intellectual careers. (It's why Asians actually have a higher Median income then whites.)

This is so true, and sadly it leads to terrible situations when many people are forced into fields they dislike and are forced to ignore their own talents.

More or less... and what's important is that it's largely pushed by their own groups.  Like, black kids are taught by other black people that certain fields and things "aren't black"... etc.

So really it depends on your definition of racism.

I think that's where most arguements of racism come from now adays.

Is it racism if a bunch of friends pick on another black kid for talking "regular" american english and getting good grades?

Some people say yes... some say no.

 

Of course, there are still also your occasional outright racist douche... but they're very rare and marginalized.

The one big issue with that is... well marginlized groups often find themselvse in the police.

See Irish cops in the US.


Racism... or "the legacy of Racism" still exists depending on your viewpoint.

It's just... less intentional and more a cycle that people have to fight to get out of.  If your strong enough, you can do as well as anyone of any race... if you aren't... well your screwed.



Kasz216 said:

More or less... and what's important is that it's largely pushed by their own groups.  Like, black kids are taught by other black people that certain fields and things "aren't black"... etc.

So really it depends on your definition of racism.

I think that's where most arguements of racism come from now adays.

Is it racism if a bunch of friends pick on another black kid for talking "regular" american english and getting good grades?

Some people say yes... some say no.

 

Of course, there are still also your occasional outright racist douche... but they're very rare and marginalized.

The one big issue with that is... well marginlized groups often find themselvse in the police.

See Irish cops in the US.


Racism... or "the legacy of Racism" still exists depending on your viewpoint.

It's just... less intentional and more a cycle that people have to fight to get out of.

Isn't that attiude caused more by poor education? Black people can't hate themselves so much that they associate poor education with their subculture, no?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

More or less... and what's important is that it's largely pushed by their own groups.  Like, black kids are taught by other black people that certain fields and things "aren't black"... etc.

So really it depends on your definition of racism.

I think that's where most arguements of racism come from now adays.

Is it racism if a bunch of friends pick on another black kid for talking "regular" american english and getting good grades?

Some people say yes... some say no.

 

Of course, there are still also your occasional outright racist douche... but they're very rare and marginalized.

The one big issue with that is... well marginlized groups often find themselvse in the police.

See Irish cops in the US.


Racism... or "the legacy of Racism" still exists depending on your viewpoint.

It's just... less intentional and more a cycle that people have to fight to get out of.

Isn't that attiude caused more by poor education? Black people can't hate themselves so much that they associate poor education with their subculture, no?

It's hard to explain... and better to come from someone who actually is black.... i suggest reading this

http://loveisntenough.com/2007/08/06/when-intelligence-is-seen-as-acting-white/


It's not they HATE themselves either it's... just what they see as "themselves".  (It's also not true for everyone of said race of course.

It's like how asian's are pushed towards math.

Which, asians are better at math... but not because they're asian.  It's because they're language handles numbers in a hell of a lot better way then western languages do.

That and because math is very much dependent on effort.  If someone thinks they will do better at math they will.   Hence why asians who speak english also tend to a bit better.

I actually did a reasearch study on self opinions and math outcomes once.



sapphi_snake said:

The ideea is that every public institution should offer a certain standard of education. I'm not sure this will lead to a better situation. Won't the schools that are worse off now, become even worse in the future? And wouldn't the kids that end up stuck going there have it even worse? Not all parents can send their kids to schools on the other side of town. Plus, how will schools accept students? What will be the criteria?

At the end of the day the Government should make sure that all public institutions opperate at a certain standard, and that all kids can get a good education.

As for the tax thing, you may never need the police, but you still pay taxes taht go to them.It's the same thign with public education.

They are supposed to offer a certain standard. That doesn't quite work out, though. The issue is that teachers are coerced to push through kids that aren't at proper levels of education, as they fear they will get fired, or funding pulled from the school. The idea of a voucher system is that if a school operates at a level that is grossly incompotent, then parents have an incentive to pull their kids out of that school and go elsewhere. If private schools are allowed to accept the kids, then these parents may not have to send their kids to school further than they do.,

Again, the problem is that the government is *supposed* to ensure that all public institutions are great and have a standard, but in general, that standard is circumvented because of fear of layoffs, firings, and other such things.

I don't have a problem paying public money to education. My problem is what I get for it. I have a problem that there are better schools out there in my area, yet I have to pay only for the crappy ones. If I want the good ones, I have to pay twice as much. Is that really fair? I would prefer to pay once, and have the best education possible for my kids.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.