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Forums - General Discussion - Obama: Cut the deficit by taxing the rich

mrstickball on 15 April 2011

Alright.

Let's throw a few comparative data sets together to discuss a few areas that would quantify actual poverty. Lets not use incomes, because PPP can vary from nation to nation. Rather, look at what the money buys via frequency of ownership of various goods, as well as frequency of metrics that would indicate lack of access to critical, life-sustaining things like food, water, shelter, ect.

I'll try to dig up some data to present shortly.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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Baalzamon on 15 April 2011
mrstickball said:

Alright.

Let's throw a few comparative data sets together to discuss a few areas that would quantify actual poverty. Lets not use incomes, because PPP can vary from nation to nation. Rather, look at what the money buys via frequency of ownership of various goods, as well as frequency of metrics that would indicate lack of access to critical, life-sustaining things like food, water, shelter, ect.

I'll try to dig up some data to present shortly.

15 cents and a microwave will get you ramen noodles here.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Rath on 16 April 2011
mrstickball said:

Alright.

Let's throw a few comparative data sets together to discuss a few areas that would quantify actual poverty. Lets not use incomes, because PPP can vary from nation to nation. Rather, look at what the money buys via frequency of ownership of various goods, as well as frequency of metrics that would indicate lack of access to critical, life-sustaining things like food, water, shelter, ect.

I'll try to dig up some data to present shortly.


Look under tab I-2 of this document

http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2009_Tables_rev.xls

It's basically what you're looking for.



numonex on 16 April 2011

Tax revenue from the rich gets re-distributed to run government services and help feed and educate citizens in a Capitalist democracy. 30% of a nation's annual income is needed just to run America efficiently. 

We could reform America's tax system to a Libertarian Tea Party wet dream as follows:

The government should allow anyone who earns over $500,000 to pay no tax. Decreasing tax rates on people earning below $500,000. Higher percentage taxes on lowest incomes. 

Reduce corporate tax rates to 10%. Just see what happens. Ban all Unions and remove minimum wage laws.

Hosni Mubarak the former Egyptian dictator worked hard and honestly earned his $50 billion fortune. Everyone is rich has worked hard and earned their fortune. Why should the rich pay taxes to feed the poor? 



Kasz216 on 16 April 2011
Rath said:
mrstickball said:

Alright.

Let's throw a few comparative data sets together to discuss a few areas that would quantify actual poverty. Lets not use incomes, because PPP can vary from nation to nation. Rather, look at what the money buys via frequency of ownership of various goods, as well as frequency of metrics that would indicate lack of access to critical, life-sustaining things like food, water, shelter, ect.

I'll try to dig up some data to present shortly.


Look under tab I-2 of this document

http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2009_Tables_rev.xls

It's basically what you're looking for.

No it's not.

I2 is relative poverty.  What Stickball is talking about is Absolute poverty.



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Rath on 16 April 2011
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
mrstickball said:

Alright.

Let's throw a few comparative data sets together to discuss a few areas that would quantify actual poverty. Lets not use incomes, because PPP can vary from nation to nation. Rather, look at what the money buys via frequency of ownership of various goods, as well as frequency of metrics that would indicate lack of access to critical, life-sustaining things like food, water, shelter, ect.

I'll try to dig up some data to present shortly.


Look under tab I-2 of this document

http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2009_Tables_rev.xls

It's basically what you're looking for.

No it's not.

I2 is relative poverty.  What Stickball is talking about is Absolute poverty.


3 out of the 4 metrics are absolute poverty. The percentage who live to 60, percentage literacy and long term unemployment are all absolute. Only the 1/2 median income is relative.



Kasz216 on 16 April 2011
Rath said:
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
mrstickball said:

Alright.

Let's throw a few comparative data sets together to discuss a few areas that would quantify actual poverty. Lets not use incomes, because PPP can vary from nation to nation. Rather, look at what the money buys via frequency of ownership of various goods, as well as frequency of metrics that would indicate lack of access to critical, life-sustaining things like food, water, shelter, ect.

I'll try to dig up some data to present shortly.


Look under tab I-2 of this document

http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2009_Tables_rev.xls

It's basically what you're looking for.

No it's not.

I2 is relative poverty.  What Stickball is talking about is Absolute poverty.


3 out of the 4 metrics are absolute poverty. The percentage who live to 60, percentage literacy and long term unemployment are all absolute. Only the 1/2 median income is relative.


None of those are nessisairly poverty based though.  Life expectancy for exampe is MUCH more heavily influenced by culture then actual medicine when you get to somewhat similiar situations.

Note.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/books/chapters/chapter-outliers.html

 

Literacy, CAN be related, but isn't nessisairly so....

and

Long Term Unemployment is close... but it ignores short term unemployment... which could still cause some abject povery if it's through very short bursts of working.



mrstickball on 16 April 2011
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:


3 out of the 4 metrics are absolute poverty. The percentage who live to 60, percentage literacy and long term unemployment are all absolute. Only the 1/2 median income is relative.


None of those are nessisairly poverty based though.  Life expectancy for exampe is MUCH more heavily influenced by culture then actual medicine when you get to somewhat similiar situations.

Note.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/books/chapters/chapter-outliers.html

 

Literacy, CAN be related, but isn't nessisairly so....

and

Long Term Unemployment is close... but it ignores short term unemployment... which could still cause some abject povery if it's through very short bursts of working.


Right.

The issue is that the metrics argued are usually relative to the society. e.g. a lower life expectancy doesn't always equate to poverty, nor litteracy (assuming they have compulsory education), and so on.

What I am asking is what is it like to be in poverty in NZ, AU, US, UK, FR and DE. What do you have access to if your on the bottom end. Can you eat? Do you live in a house? What is your house like?



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.