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Forums - PC - 12 Ways Consoles Are Hurting PC Gaming

Final-Fan said:
brendude13 said:

Wow, just did some research, apparently there were more than 10 million computers in the U.S when the NES was out, never knew that.

Anyway...Scratch that, barely anybody had a PC during the NES / SNES era. I didn't have a computer until 2002, I don't know anybody that has a PC before 1990, but then again, I do live in the UK where computers probably weren't as popular outside of offices.

Anyway, I am sick to death of PC fanboys thinking that the PC is the reason gaming exists now, that isn't true.

I think you mean "PC fanboys thinking the PC is where all advancements in gaming happen" or something like that, right? 

...No? o.0

Either way, I think the PC recieves too much credit for its impact on the gaming industry.



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Final-Fan said:
vlad321 said:
Final-Fan said:

It's true that I didn't buy the StarCraft II computer game just for the box and the plastic coaster within.  But on the other hand, it's a long established practice, and one I fully support, that the physical product is a transferrable license to the content within, either on paper or on disk.  TRANSFERRABLE.  The concept of "ownership" to me implies the power over what is done from that point on with the product, which is why I hate non-resellable games.  Let me go into detail below. 

What I get from what you said is that your position is that there is only one actual "property" of StarCraft II, and every game out there is just a little piece of it, all tied together by ethereal strings and you're paying Blizzard to hand you a string so you can have access to Blizzard's property. 

I, on the other hand, think that (using books for an example) the book is the physical property, which is bought by the customer and owned by the customer, to do with as he pleases, and which contains a piece of the intellectual property, which is owned by the author/publisher/whatever.  In this case the book (which you OWN) contains the string from the last example's metaphor (the strings being the IP, and which you DON'T own), but the property containing the string is completely in the control of the customer, and the author has no right to take that string out of the property which is not theirs, and no right to control what is done with that property, including reselling it to someone else who would then own that property and have access to that string. 

I admit that some publishers are treating their games as being the first type (your idea), to control what you can do with the string, because they say it's still theirs and you're just paying to hold it, and they have set it up so that you can't hand it to someone else.  I hate that.  I think that they shouldn't control the string anymore.  On a practical level, since publishers are capable of making their games fit your definition, that may mean your idea is factually more correct, and any control I have over the strings of my games is at the sufferance of publishers.  But morally, I'm sticking with my version. 

P.S.  So your position is that, morally, the hierarchy would be (bad to worse):  free pirated stuff --> used stuff --------------------> pirated stuff that people pay for ... right?

P.P.S.  So in that metaphor, piracy is creating counterfeit strings.  That's how it creates property.


Let me just say this to make it clear, I am totally agreeing with you that the used market is just fine.I also like your string analogy and fully agree with it to view it as a form of property.

I didn't make this clear enough, but what makes you buy a book or game is the experience you had with it. The entertainment and joy, if you will. When you pass your string onto the next person, you don't lose the value, utility if you wish, that you gained from the book/game unless someone hits you on the head and you forget about it. Therefore you don't just transfer the value (this is the only way to compare ideas to physical goods, more in a second), but you quite literally duplicate it. Now there is someone else out there who receives value from the same string. The creator's product is that utility you gain from the game which you jsut doubled. He sees no reward for the duplication of utility.

This is actually very similar to physical goods. If you take a car as an example. Its value is the ability to get you around, and to have fun driving if you are into it. Once you sell it, you have lost the value of the car. It's gone, and you no longer have it. You would have to make a copy of the car, then sell it (counterfeit), for you to be able to retain its value, and have someone else also have its value.

Well, I at least understand that position, but I still totally disagree.  You cannot reread a book you've sold.  You cannot replay a game you've sold.  Admittedly you don't read a book as often as you drive a car, but that is still different from 500 people playing the same pirated game at once. 

It's not in any way duplicated. 


I understand exactly where you are coming from as well. I just feel that you have used up the value of the book the moment you are done reading it, and nothing can take that way.

Edit: I don't mean that re-reading doesn't have value, it's just much much smaller than that initial one.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

brendude13 said:
Final-Fan said:
brendude13 said:

Wow, just did some research, apparently there were more than 10 million computers in the U.S when the NES was out, never knew that.

Anyway...Scratch that, barely anybody had a PC during the NES / SNES era. I didn't have a computer until 2002, I don't know anybody that has a PC before 1990, but then again, I do live in the UK where computers probably weren't as popular outside of offices.

Anyway, I am sick to death of PC fanboys thinking that the PC is the reason gaming exists now, that isn't true.

I think you mean "PC fanboys thinking the PC is where all advancements in gaming happen" or something like that, right? 

...No? o.0

Either way, I think the PC recieves too much credit for its impact on the gaming industry.

Oh you mean like.... online play and FPS games?

Edit: I can name a whole bunch more those were just the first glaring ones.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:
Final-Fan said:

Well, I at least understand that position, but I still totally disagree.  You cannot reread a book you've sold.  You cannot replay a game you've sold.  Admittedly you don't read a book as often as you drive a car, but that is still different from 500 people playing the same pirated game at once. 

It's not in any way duplicated. 

I understand exactly where you are coming from as well. I just feel that you have used up the value of the book the moment you are done reading it, and nothing can take that way.

Edit: I don't mean that re-reading doesn't have value, it's just much much smaller than that initial one.

Well, there's a world of difference between "it's not as good the second time around" and "you can never reuse this unless you buy another".  Also, again, you can't play a used game at the same time someone else is playing THESAME used game. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
vlad321 said:
Final-Fan said:

Well, I at least understand that position, but I still totally disagree.  You cannot reread a book you've sold.  You cannot replay a game you've sold.  Admittedly you don't read a book as often as you drive a car, but that is still different from 500 people playing the same pirated game at once. 

It's not in any way duplicated. 

I understand exactly where you are coming from as well. I just feel that you have used up the value of the book the moment you are done reading it, and nothing can take that way.

Edit: I don't mean that re-reading doesn't have value, it's just much much smaller than that initial one.

Well, there's a world of difference between "it's not as good the second time around" and "you can never reuse this unless you buy another".  Also, again, you can't play a used game at the same time someone else is playing THESAME used game. 

Agreed. However I still stand by my case that repeat value is of a much smaller magnitutude than the first go around. I know that when I start read Song of Ice and Fire again (new book in July!), I will not have nowhere near the same awe as when I first read throgh them and it will be more of a retread. If I sold them (or my bitch ex steals them) then I have duplicated that enormous feeling of enjoyment.

I do have an interesting question though. It is within your rights to make a copy as a backup of your game. When you sell that game, do you destroy those copies?



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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DRM is hurting PC gaming more than anything. I don't think console gaming is necessarily harming PC gaming. Here is the deal: When developers make a big-budget videogame that requires PC specs that a big chunk of PC users don't have (remember: many people are shifting away from desktops to laptops now and lots of people that do have desktops don't want to spend the money to upgrade or don't have the know-how to build a rig), their not going to have that big of an install base of gamers to work with. That's where the home consoles come in. Ever notice how Blizzard games stay PC exclusive? It's because they make games with modest spec requirements. World of Warcraft: Catacylsm can probably run on a pretty old laptop and Starcraft 2 can run on a number of laptops as well. My two year old Dell Studio should be able to run Starcraft 2 no problem.

You will see exceptions to the rule like The Witcher 2 but CD Projekt RED employs cheap Polish labour to keep costs down ($7 million development budget apparently) and The Witcher and CD Projekt itself has built up a huge cult following on the PC end. It's not every day that a PC-exclusive game is as successful as The Witcher 2. This is why you're starting to see modest spec games like World of Warcraft, Starcraft 2 and the Sims as well as small-budget indie games (ie. Terraria) dominate the PC gaming space. A game like Terraria is cheap to make and can reach a whole lot of PC gamers (game can run on an old laptop).



vlad321 said:
brendude13 said:
Final-Fan said:
brendude13 said:

Wow, just did some research, apparently there were more than 10 million computers in the U.S when the NES was out, never knew that.

Anyway...Scratch that, barely anybody had a PC during the NES / SNES era. I didn't have a computer until 2002, I don't know anybody that has a PC before 1990, but then again, I do live in the UK where computers probably weren't as popular outside of offices.

Anyway, I am sick to death of PC fanboys thinking that the PC is the reason gaming exists now, that isn't true.

I think you mean "PC fanboys thinking the PC is where all advancements in gaming happen" or something like that, right? 

...No? o.0

Either way, I think the PC recieves too much credit for its impact on the gaming industry.

Oh you mean like.... online play and FPS games?

Edit: I can name a whole bunch more those were just the first glaring ones.

Yes, PC started FPS and online games, but I wouldn't flaunt that as if it was a GOOD thing, especially when you look at the gaming industry now.



irstupid said:
Ail said:

I have to disagree with blaming consoles for the fact that most PC games don't use cutting edge graphics.

Fact is that despite what the author is trying to say, not every PC gamer has a cutting edge machine.

 

Lets not kid ourselves, the most successfull PC developer is Blizzard, last I checked they didn't release their games on consoles so that's not what is holding them back and despite that their games don't go full out using every last bit of power on your machine.

The reason is simple, they know that to have broad appeal you can't target the high end PC only...

computer games come out with low to insane levels of graphics.  hell witcher 2 right now on ultimate low and low resolution looks like a ps1 game, meanwhile i'm not sure if anyoen has a computer that can run it on its maximum settings and resolution.

and guess waht, that game cost a fraction to make as what most hd console games cost.  so do they have to solely target the uber high end pc's?  no, that is the beauty of pc games, you can set your own graphics so that you can run it optimally.

 

edit: and i love how so many of you say PC gamers are complaining.  Well duh, but its not a selfish whine.  Most of our whinning is when you change things for the worse.  We aren't asking for the impossible.  The most common is one he already mentioned.  MENU control.  I mean wtf, we have a perfectly good mouse and plenty of keys, why restrict us to using arrow keys and pushing S or enter, or whatever we set it up to be.  Or hell even worse, NOT letting us set up buttons to what we want.  We dont' care if a game is on PC, 360, PS3, Wii, Ds or you name it.  We just don't want you shitting on us.  if you want to keep graphics back so that you can easily port to all 3 systems or wahtever that is fine, but don't gimp our controls or menu.

haven't you heard ?

The mouse is dead. the future is touchscreen. ( that's the cool aid Apple has been selling and from what i hear it's pretty successfull...)



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

brendude13 said:
vlad321 said:
brendude13 said:
Final-Fan said:
brendude13 said:

Wow, just did some research, apparently there were more than 10 million computers in the U.S when the NES was out, never knew that.

Anyway...Scratch that, barely anybody had a PC during the NES / SNES era. I didn't have a computer until 2002, I don't know anybody that has a PC before 1990, but then again, I do live in the UK where computers probably weren't as popular outside of offices.

Anyway, I am sick to death of PC fanboys thinking that the PC is the reason gaming exists now, that isn't true.

I think you mean "PC fanboys thinking the PC is where all advancements in gaming happen" or something like that, right? 

...No? o.0

Either way, I think the PC recieves too much credit for its impact on the gaming industry.

Oh you mean like.... online play and FPS games?

Edit: I can name a whole bunch more those were just the first glaring ones.

Yes, PC started FPS and online games, but I wouldn't flaunt that as if it was a GOOD thing, especially when you look at the gaming industry now.

Yes, because consoles picked up on online play and FPS games. They were fine before they got on consoles. Interesting, huh?



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Ail said:
irstupid said:
Ail said:

I have to disagree with blaming consoles for the fact that most PC games don't use cutting edge graphics.

Fact is that despite what the author is trying to say, not every PC gamer has a cutting edge machine.

 

Lets not kid ourselves, the most successfull PC developer is Blizzard, last I checked they didn't release their games on consoles so that's not what is holding them back and despite that their games don't go full out using every last bit of power on your machine.

The reason is simple, they know that to have broad appeal you can't target the high end PC only...

computer games come out with low to insane levels of graphics.  hell witcher 2 right now on ultimate low and low resolution looks like a ps1 game, meanwhile i'm not sure if anyoen has a computer that can run it on its maximum settings and resolution.

and guess waht, that game cost a fraction to make as what most hd console games cost.  so do they have to solely target the uber high end pc's?  no, that is the beauty of pc games, you can set your own graphics so that you can run it optimally.

 

edit: and i love how so many of you say PC gamers are complaining.  Well duh, but its not a selfish whine.  Most of our whinning is when you change things for the worse.  We aren't asking for the impossible.  The most common is one he already mentioned.  MENU control.  I mean wtf, we have a perfectly good mouse and plenty of keys, why restrict us to using arrow keys and pushing S or enter, or whatever we set it up to be.  Or hell even worse, NOT letting us set up buttons to what we want.  We dont' care if a game is on PC, 360, PS3, Wii, Ds or you name it.  We just don't want you shitting on us.  if you want to keep graphics back so that you can easily port to all 3 systems or wahtever that is fine, but don't gimp our controls or menu.

haven't you heard ?

The mouse is dead. the future is touchscreen. ( that's the cool aid Apple has been selling and from what i hear it's pretty successfull...)

yea gotta love having a huge ass finger covering up the screen and needing to have BIG objects so that you don't push more at once.  I tried typing on my parents phone the other day and i was pushign the wrong buttons like 90% of the time.

try and watch a aiphone game online on youtube.  have fun watching 2/3 fo the screen and someone finger on the other 1/3