By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Fez dev: PC and PSN "would make sense" But WiiWare can "f*** off"

Raze said:

Hooray fanboy devs, slowly filling the industry with their hate. =P


Did he say anything wrong? He shares the same views as many of the other smaller devs that develop games for the downloadable platforms. Nintendo fucked up, I think he has the right to judge their mistakes as mistakes, instead of just sweeping them under the carpet and just ignoring them.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

Around the Network
Doobie_wop said:
Raze said:

Hooray fanboy devs, slowly filling the industry with their hate. =P


Did he say anything wrong? He shares the same views as many of the other smaller devs that develop games for the downloadable platforms. Nintendo fucked up, I think he has the right to judge their mistakes as mistakes, instead of just sweeping them under the carpet and just ignoring them.

Word choice. He chooses to say "Nintendo can fuck off," so we should be free to tell him that he can just go straight to hell, instead of actually arguing the merits or demerits of his problems (which are poorly founded anyway)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
Doobie_wop said:
Raze said:

Hooray fanboy devs, slowly filling the industry with their hate. =P


Did he say anything wrong? He shares the same views as many of the other smaller devs that develop games for the downloadable platforms. Nintendo fucked up, I think he has the right to judge their mistakes as mistakes, instead of just sweeping them under the carpet and just ignoring them.

Word choice. He chooses to say "Nintendo can fuck off," so we should be free to tell him that he can just go straight to hell, instead of actually arguing the merits or demerits of his problems (which are poorly founded anyway)

His allowed to say 'fuck'. Saying 'fuck' does not make you a fanboy or give you the right to judge a whole industry based around the logical opinion of a single developer.

- Nintendo lacks a decent demo system. Demo expiries are stupid and are unneccessary.

- Nintendo barely advertise or maintain their own store.

- Their store is an open gate to a flood of shovelware. Quality control is pretty much non existent.

- One of the best selling Wii Ware games is World of Goo, which only sold 68,000 copies in it's first month. Compare that to the sales of other titles released on the other platforms and then you'll see how low it actually is. Just as a comparison, Joe Danger was downloaded 90,000 times on it's first day on PSN.

- 40 MB restriction on the games memory size.

- Games are rarely ever patched or updated.

These are all issues that he and many other small developers (based on DICE and GDC talk) have with the platform.

The only thing they like about WiiWare is that they can release their crappy games on the system and hopefully build up a good enough portfolio which will make them good enough to develop titles or release their titles on XBLA or PSN.

You can dislike the way he said it, but what he said still isn't wrong.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

Conegamer said:
mrstickball said:

Unprofessional, but understandable. If and when I develop any downloadable games, the last place I'd want them to end up is WiiWare. Its very unforunate, too. Nintendo could of easily had the best downloadable system of all 3, since they have the leverage of their massive back catalog of IPs, but instead, they hamstrung the platform every way they could.

For them, though, I am sure the comments won't cost them anything. Fez on XBLA will likely be the #1 or #2 game this year, which means it will likely outsell any and every WiiWare game made in a few months, tops.

Nintendo's whole 'Garage Developers' stance is killing them. There have been some memorable titles from 2 and 3 man teams this generation like Poker Smash and Super Meat Boy.

Yep. And the 6 Bit. Trip Games, and Hydroventure, and Cave Story, and World Of Goo, ART STYLE...

Oh wait, they're all on WiiWare

My point is, his stance seems a bit arrogant to me, something we'd expect to hear maybe in '08, but not now. OK, you hate Nintendo, we get it. But, there are some great games for WiiWare, and, of course, VC, if you put the effort in...

Oh, I believe the best selling WiiWare game is indeed World Of Goo (or Bit.Trip RUNNER?), with over 2 million sales. So the customers are there, these devs just don't want to work with it

I don't hate Nintendo. I hate how they've hamstrung their market.

Thing is, most of the games you mentioned sold very poorly when you compare them to similar quality games on XBLA. I am not knocking the games on the market - they are great - I am knocking how Nintendo has made the environment for developers on the system. Limited space = less major games (we've seen developers state they cannot put their titles on WiiWare because of the 40MB limit, and have to go elsewhere), lack of significant hard drive = fewer purchases by consumers. Bad UI = harder to find and buy titles. Less demos = less conversions from trials (according to Sony, 90% of all purchases were by consumers that tried demos).

For example, here's World of Goo's developer stating that the iPad launch of World of Goo sold twice as many copies as it did on WiiWare at its best point on the market, ever. Also, I think you are greatly ovestating World of Goo's sales on WiiWare. I haven't seen a single statement from 2D boy that they even sold 1 million copies, much less 2 million. Therefore, its sales are very likely to be lower than 1 million. The data I have points to about 500,000 copies sold in WiiWare for about $7.2 million USD.

Comparatively, on Xbox Live Arcade, there are at least 6 titles that have performed the same in terms of unit sales/revenues as World of Goo. Furthermore, you find that the WiiWare market is about 1/3rd the size of XBLA in terms of gross revenues, which is atrocious given that Nintendo has a much larger user install base. That should tell you a lot as to how Nintendo's downloadable strategy is panning out.

Oh, and for a freebie, here is a list of the top 10 downloadable games between WW/XBL/PSN in terms of gross revenues to give you an idea:

  1. Castle Crashers (XBLA) - $22.3 million
  2. Trials HD (XBLA) - $17.2 million
  3. Battlefield 1943 (XBLA) - $16.3 million
  4. Pokemon Rumble (WW) - $10.7 million
  5. My Pokemon Ranch (WW)- $9.1 million
  6. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life As A King (WW) - $8.5 million
  7. LIMBO (XBLA) - $8.2 million
  8. UNO (XBLA) - $8.0 million
  9. Shadow Complex (XBLA) - $8.0 million
  10. Battlefield 1943 (PSN) - $7.6 million

And for number of million-dollar selling titles, by platform (of those that I have data for):

  1. Xbox Live Arcade - 104
  2. PSN - 40
  3. WiiWare - 25

Now, I gotta ask: If you could publish your game to one platform, what would it be? The one that has a title that grossed $22 million dollars and has roughly 1/3rd of its titles hit $1 million in gross revenues? Or the one that has much less that gives developers no incentive for their platform? 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball said:
Conegamer said:
mrstickball said:

Unprofessional, but understandable. If and when I develop any downloadable games, the last place I'd want them to end up is WiiWare. Its very unforunate, too. Nintendo could of easily had the best downloadable system of all 3, since they have the leverage of their massive back catalog of IPs, but instead, they hamstrung the platform every way they could.

For them, though, I am sure the comments won't cost them anything. Fez on XBLA will likely be the #1 or #2 game this year, which means it will likely outsell any and every WiiWare game made in a few months, tops.

Nintendo's whole 'Garage Developers' stance is killing them. There have been some memorable titles from 2 and 3 man teams this generation like Poker Smash and Super Meat Boy.

Yep. And the 6 Bit. Trip Games, and Hydroventure, and Cave Story, and World Of Goo, ART STYLE...

Oh wait, they're all on WiiWare

My point is, his stance seems a bit arrogant to me, something we'd expect to hear maybe in '08, but not now. OK, you hate Nintendo, we get it. But, there are some great games for WiiWare, and, of course, VC, if you put the effort in...

Oh, I believe the best selling WiiWare game is indeed World Of Goo (or Bit.Trip RUNNER?), with over 2 million sales. So the customers are there, these devs just don't want to work with it

I don't hate Nintendo. I hate how they've hamstrung their market.

Thing is, most of the games you mentioned sold very poorly when you compare them to similar quality games on XBLA. I am not knocking the games on the market - they are great - I am knocking how Nintendo has made the environment for developers on the system. Limited space = less major games (we've seen developers state they cannot put their titles on WiiWare because of the 40MB limit, and have to go elsewhere), lack of significant hard drive = fewer purchases by consumers. Bad UI = harder to find and buy titles. Less demos = less conversions from trials (according to Sony, 90% of all purchases were by consumers that tried demos).

For example, here's World of Goo's developer stating that the iPad launch of World of Goo sold twice as many copies as it did on WiiWare at its best point on the market, ever. Also, I think you are greatly ovestating World of Goo's sales on WiiWare. I haven't seen a single statement from 2D boy that they even sold 1 million copies, much less 2 million. Therefore, its sales are very likely to be lower than 1 million. The data I have points to about 500,000 copies sold in WiiWare for about $7.2 million USD.

Comparatively, on Xbox Live Arcade, there are at least 6 titles that have performed the same in terms of unit sales/revenues as World of Goo. Furthermore, you find that the WiiWare market is about 1/3rd the size of XBLA in terms of gross revenues, which is atrocious given that Nintendo has a much larger user install base. That should tell you a lot as to how Nintendo's downloadable strategy is panning out.

Oh, and for a freebie, here is a list of the top 10 downloadable games between WW/XBL/PSN in terms of gross revenues to give you an idea:

  • Castle Crashers (XBLA) - $22.3 million
  • Trials HD (XBLA) - $17.2 million
  • Battlefield 1943 (XBLA) - $16.3 million
  • Pokemon Rumble (WW) - $10.7 million
  • My Pokemon Ranch (WW)- $9.1 million
  • Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life As A King (WW) - $8.5 million
  • LIMBO (XBLA) - $8.2 million
  • UNO (XBLA) - $8.0 million
  • Shadow Complex (XBLA) - $8.0 million
  • Battlefield 1943 (PSN) - $7.6 million
  • And for number of million-dollar selling titles, by platform (of those that I have data for):

  • Xbox Live Arcade - 104
  • PSN - 40
  • WiiWare - 25
  • Now, I gotta ask: If you could publish your game to one platform, what would it be? The one that has a title that grossed $22 million dollars and has roughly 1/3rd of its titles hit $1 million in gross revenues? Or the one that has much less that gives developers no incentive for their platform? 

    He mean that this jerk-dev hates Nintendo, not you.

    Also, i was unaware that the glorified Pokemon box is one of the top-grossing downloadable console titles of all time. That's just wierd



    Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

    Around the Network
    Mr Khan said:
    mrstickball said:

    I don't hate Nintendo. I hate how they've hamstrung their market.

    Thing is, most of the games you mentioned sold very poorly when you compare them to similar quality games on XBLA. I am not knocking the games on the market - they are great - I am knocking how Nintendo has made the environment for developers on the system. Limited space = less major games (we've seen developers state they cannot put their titles on WiiWare because of the 40MB limit, and have to go elsewhere), lack of significant hard drive = fewer purchases by consumers. Bad UI = harder to find and buy titles. Less demos = less conversions from trials (according to Sony, 90% of all purchases were by consumers that tried demos).

    For example, here's World of Goo's developer stating that the iPad launch of World of Goo sold twice as many copies as it did on WiiWare at its best point on the market, ever. Also, I think you are greatly ovestating World of Goo's sales on WiiWare. I haven't seen a single statement from 2D boy that they even sold 1 million copies, much less 2 million. Therefore, its sales are very likely to be lower than 1 million. The data I have points to about 500,000 copies sold in WiiWare for about $7.2 million USD.

    Comparatively, on Xbox Live Arcade, there are at least 6 titles that have performed the same in terms of unit sales/revenues as World of Goo. Furthermore, you find that the WiiWare market is about 1/3rd the size of XBLA in terms of gross revenues, which is atrocious given that Nintendo has a much larger user install base. That should tell you a lot as to how Nintendo's downloadable strategy is panning out.

    Oh, and for a freebie, here is a list of the top 10 downloadable games between WW/XBL/PSN in terms of gross revenues to give you an idea:

  • Castle Crashers (XBLA) - $22.3 million
  • Trials HD (XBLA) - $17.2 million
  • Battlefield 1943 (XBLA) - $16.3 million
  • Pokemon Rumble (WW) - $10.7 million
  • My Pokemon Ranch (WW)- $9.1 million
  • Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life As A King (WW) - $8.5 million
  • LIMBO (XBLA) - $8.2 million
  • UNO (XBLA) - $8.0 million
  • Shadow Complex (XBLA) - $8.0 million
  • Battlefield 1943 (PSN) - $7.6 million
  • And for number of million-dollar selling titles, by platform (of those that I have data for):

  • Xbox Live Arcade - 104
  • PSN - 40
  • WiiWare - 25
  • Now, I gotta ask: If you could publish your game to one platform, what would it be? The one that has a title that grossed $22 million dollars and has roughly 1/3rd of its titles hit $1 million in gross revenues? Or the one that has much less that gives developers no incentive for their platform? 

    He mean that this jerk-dev hates Nintendo, not you.

    Also, i was unaware that the glorified Pokemon box is one of the top-grossing downloadable console titles of all time. That's just wierd

    Ah, my apologies.

    On one end, its crazy that Pokemon titles make up 2 of the top ten highest grossing downloadable games, but at the same time, when you consider the pedigree, exclusivity, and likely advertising Nintendo does for an internal title, its rather understandable. Performances of downloadable titles are intrinsicly tied into how much 'face time' a title gets on the platform and in the media, so a game that is 1st party is likely to have more user awareness, regardless of quality. Thats not to say that Pokemon is a bad game or anything, but it was given the recipe for success like few other WiiWare titles were.



    Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

    this fez game reminds me of Crush on the PSP in terms of the game mechanic. It just takes out the step of "crushing" the game from 3D to 2D.



    mrstickball said:
    Conegamer said:
    mrstickball said:

    Unprofessional, but understandable. If and when I develop any downloadable games, the last place I'd want them to end up is WiiWare. Its very unforunate, too. Nintendo could of easily had the best downloadable system of all 3, since they have the leverage of their massive back catalog of IPs, but instead, they hamstrung the platform every way they could.

    For them, though, I am sure the comments won't cost them anything. Fez on XBLA will likely be the #1 or #2 game this year, which means it will likely outsell any and every WiiWare game made in a few months, tops.

    Nintendo's whole 'Garage Developers' stance is killing them. There have been some memorable titles from 2 and 3 man teams this generation like Poker Smash and Super Meat Boy.

    Yep. And the 6 Bit. Trip Games, and Hydroventure, and Cave Story, and World Of Goo, ART STYLE...

    Oh wait, they're all on WiiWare

    My point is, his stance seems a bit arrogant to me, something we'd expect to hear maybe in '08, but not now. OK, you hate Nintendo, we get it. But, there are some great games for WiiWare, and, of course, VC, if you put the effort in...

    Oh, I believe the best selling WiiWare game is indeed World Of Goo (or Bit.Trip RUNNER?), with over 2 million sales. So the customers are there, these devs just don't want to work with it

    I don't hate Nintendo. I hate how they've hamstrung their market.

    Thing is, most of the games you mentioned sold very poorly when you compare them to similar quality games on XBLA. I am not knocking the games on the market - they are great - I am knocking how Nintendo has made the environment for developers on the system. Limited space = less major games (we've seen developers state they cannot put their titles on WiiWare because of the 40MB limit, and have to go elsewhere), lack of significant hard drive = fewer purchases by consumers. Bad UI = harder to find and buy titles. Less demos = less conversions from trials (according to Sony, 90% of all purchases were by consumers that tried demos).

    For example, here's World of Goo's developer stating that the iPad launch of World of Goo sold twice as many copies as it did on WiiWare at its best point on the market, ever. Also, I think you are greatly ovestating World of Goo's sales on WiiWare. I haven't seen a single statement from 2D boy that they even sold 1 million copies, much less 2 million. Therefore, its sales are very likely to be lower than 1 million. The data I have points to about 500,000 copies sold in WiiWare for about $7.2 million USD.

    Comparatively, on Xbox Live Arcade, there are at least 6 titles that have performed the same in terms of unit sales/revenues as World of Goo. Furthermore, you find that the WiiWare market is about 1/3rd the size of XBLA in terms of gross revenues, which is atrocious given that Nintendo has a much larger user install base. That should tell you a lot as to how Nintendo's downloadable strategy is panning out.

    Oh, and for a freebie, here is a list of the top 10 downloadable games between WW/XBL/PSN in terms of gross revenues to give you an idea:

  • Castle Crashers (XBLA) - $22.3 million
  • Trials HD (XBLA) - $17.2 million
  • Battlefield 1943 (XBLA) - $16.3 million
  • Pokemon Rumble (WW) - $10.7 million
  • My Pokemon Ranch (WW)- $9.1 million
  • Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life As A King (WW) - $8.5 million
  • LIMBO (XBLA) - $8.2 million
  • UNO (XBLA) - $8.0 million
  • Shadow Complex (XBLA) - $8.0 million
  • Battlefield 1943 (PSN) - $7.6 million
  • And for number of million-dollar selling titles, by platform (of those that I have data for):

  • Xbox Live Arcade - 104
  • PSN - 40
  • WiiWare - 25
  • Now, I gotta ask: If you could publish your game to one platform, what would it be? The one that has a title that grossed $22 million dollars and has roughly 1/3rd of its titles hit $1 million in gross revenues? Or the one that has much less that gives developers no incentive for their platform? 

    I didn't meen that you hate Nintendo, simply, that the OP stated it...the fact that you (IMO incorrectly) reckon that Nintendo have 'Hamstrung' the market is irrelevant

    I see where you're coming from here (though I still think that WOG on WiiWare is above 1 mil, as is Bit.Trip Series (not runner)), but simply stating that WiiWare is stupid is indeed a stupid proposition. It may not be the best, but knocking it without even trying is just a little unprofessional IMO...



     

    Here lies the dearly departed Nintendomination Thread.

    Nintendo: "gamers don't care about online"

    So yes, for a small dev like this, WiiWare can fuck off. It's an abysmal (and terribly supported) platform that was tacked on after Nintendo saw they were wrong with the success of XBL



    Nintendogamer said:

    Well as Reggie said, he's not interested in garage developers.  We have hydroventure, bit trip games and the like, it's not like we're in need of this arrogants sod's games.


    And what do you think most developers started as?



    PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
    Amazing discussion about being wrong
    Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453