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Forums - Gaming - Why does the media worship Apple?

rocketpig said:
greenmedic88 said:

Thinking a bit further, if the iPad was more like a Cintiq graphics tablet (to include stylus compatibility with the same levels of pressure sensitivity and the ability to interface with a workstation for use with professional graphical production applications), I'd already have one.

Same here.


HTC tablet uses the stylus , I am sure apple will add that to their ipad soon.



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Baalzamon said:

What exactly do you all have to do with your setup that takes so long?  I'm just curious, not trying to sound like I'm attacking you or anything.

Also, I know the processor is a bit faster on the current macbook pros.  I also discovered it is 1333mhz ram I have.

One other question, since you seem to follow them.  I've looked in the past, and its as if Apple is slow to respond to hardware changes, was this just coincidental, or are they actually slow to respond to the newest hardware changes?  Also, did they very recently update their macbooks, because all of that stuff is somewhat new.

Overclock settings running stable as the primary use for my workstation is Maya, where every bit of processing power available is used during rendering. Stability is essential because no one watches a computer render for hours in case of a crash or hang up so they can quickly restart and begin rendering frames again. Leave a project rendering overnight and your workstation crashes, you're not going to be happy in the morning if you're expecting 8 hours worth of frames.

I've had various problems with software configuration as well, but I'm actually willing to chalk some of those up to Autodesk, and not Windows or any of the hardware I'm using. My record on hardware failure is probably well below average, more by luck than anything else.

My workstation is not a standard PC which is why getting everything to run as desired took a fair amount of time from the RAID 0 SSD boot disk, OC settings, multiple reinstallations and application migrations from various disks, the dual VGA card set up (one workstation card for production aps, one consumer gamer card for benchmarking). Lot of time spent reconfiguring the hardware alone to accomodate changes.

Apple's biggest problem regarding hardware configurations is that they are locked into their own "tick tock" cycle of upgrades for their computers (iPads, iPods, iPhones are generally on a one year product refresh cycle). Generally they seem to do a minor refresh on specs every six months with their base configurations not reflecting the best components available at the time. They're typically available as "build to order" options which if you've ever visited the Apple online shop, can really balloon the price of a system just by checking a handful of option pips, like $500 for a 256GB SSD for example (which accurately reflects the price of a similar drive, only one that wouldn't be verified to run without issue on OSX). CPU options typically add hundreds to a build, directly reflecting the price differences in CPU lines from Intel (ie the difference between a second gen i7 2.0 Ghz and a 2.2 Ghz is about $160 based on what Intel charges vendors for the chips). That's Intel, not Apple. There's a reason why those sub $1000 Wintel PCs use the cheaper CPU. In six months, when Intel drops the price on the faster clocks, they'll show up in base configurations at the same price. Apple generally charges too much for RAM upgrades and HDD upgrades.

Major updates are generally about once a year. The move to Sandy Bridge second gen i7 quads was a significant jump, as was the Thunderbolt interface and the incremental move to faster GPUs with 1GB VRAM in the non-base configurations.

Case redesigns are generally every 2-3 years, with minor refreshes in between.

Apple always keeps a close eye on their margins as well, which most likely explains the base configurations being priced well above similarly configured Wintel PCs. It boggles my mind that they were able to charge what they did for C2D based laptops for as long as they did, but considering that the typical Apple laptop consumer is not looking to buy a gaming laptop (if they are, not to be an ass, but they're kind of an idiot) or a high power productivity mobile workstation. Most just want a computer that's easy to use with little hassle and the assurance that they can always take it to the local Apple Store for hands on help if needed. Most people probably don't need much more than the apps that are preinstalled on every Mac (Garage Band, iMove, iDVD, iPhoto, iTunes, etc.) which just makes them all that much easier to use.



sad.man.loves.vgc said:
rocketpig said:
greenmedic88 said:

Thinking a bit further, if the iPad was more like a Cintiq graphics tablet (to include stylus compatibility with the same levels of pressure sensitivity and the ability to interface with a workstation for use with professional graphical production applications), I'd already have one.

Same here.


HTC tablet uses the stylus , I am sure apple will add that to their ipad soon.

It's not the same as the Wacom Cintiq. Not sure if it's in the software, the stylus or the display itself, but it registers 2048 levels of pressure sensitivity. For the typical artist, it's not just an issue of being able to draw with a stick/stylus, but the sensitivity levels, the stylus angle tilt detection, etc. that help it replicate real media brush strokes.

If all I'm doing is touch typing, pointing at icons or sliding and pinching menus, none of that matters.



sad.man.loves.vgc said:
rocketpig said:
greenmedic88 said:

Thinking a bit further, if the iPad was more like a Cintiq graphics tablet (to include stylus compatibility with the same levels of pressure sensitivity and the ability to interface with a workstation for use with professional graphical production applications), I'd already have one.

Same here.


HTC tablet uses the stylus , I am sure apple will add that to their ipad soon.

A stylus by itself is not enough. I also need something with the pressure sensitivity of a Cintiq or Intuos.




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greenmedic88 said:
Baalzamon said:
 

What exactly do you all have to do with your setup that takes so long?  I'm just curious, not trying to sound like I'm attacking you or anything.

Also, I know the processor is a bit faster on the current macbook pros.  I also discovered it is 1333mhz ram I have.

One other question, since you seem to follow them.  I've looked in the past, and its as if Apple is slow to respond to hardware changes, was this just coincidental, or are they actually slow to respond to the newest hardware changes?  Also, did they very recently update their macbooks, because all of that stuff is somewhat new.

Overclock settings running stable as the primary use for my workstation is Maya, where every bit of processing power available is used during rendering. Stability is essential because no one watches a computer render for hours in case of a crash or hang up so they can quickly restart and begin rendering frames again. Leave a project rendering overnight and your workstation crashes, you're not going to be happy in the morning if you're expecting 8 hours worth of frames.

I've had various problems with software configuration as well, but I'm actually willing to chalk some of those up to Autodesk, and not Windows or any of the hardware I'm using. My record on hardware failure is probably well below average, more by luck than anything else.

My workstation is not a standard PC which is why getting everything to run as desired took a fair amount of time from the RAID 0 SSD boot disk, OC settings, multiple reinstallations and application migrations from various disks, the dual VGA card set up (one workstation card for production aps, one consumer gamer card for benchmarking). Lot of time spent reconfiguring the hardware alone to accomodate changes.

Apple's biggest problem regarding hardware configurations is that they are locked into their own "tick tock" cycle of upgrades for their computers (iPads, iPods, iPhones are generally on a one year product refresh cycle). Generally they seem to do a minor refresh on specs every six months with their base configurations not reflecting the best components available at the time. They're typically available as "build to order" options which if you've ever visited the Apple online shop, can really balloon the price of a system just by checking a handful of option pips, like $500 for a 256GB SSD for example (which accurately reflects the price of a similar drive, only one that wouldn't be verified to run without issue on OSX). CPU options typically add hundreds to a build, directly reflecting the price differences in CPU lines from Intel (ie the difference between a second gen i7 2.0 Ghz and a 2.2 Ghz is about $160 based on what Intel charges vendors for the chips). That's Intel, not Apple. There's a reason why those sub $1000 Wintel PCs use the cheaper CPU. In six months, when Intel drops the price on the faster clocks, they'll show up in base configurations at the same price. Apple generally charges too much for RAM upgrades and HDD upgrades.

Major updates are generally about once a year. The move to Sandy Bridge second gen i7 quads was a significant jump, as was the Thunderbolt interface and the incremental move to faster GPUs with 1GB VRAM in the non-base configurations.

Case redesigns are generally every 2-3 years, with minor refreshes in between.

Apple always keeps a close eye on their margins as well, which most likely explains the base configurations being priced well above similarly configured Wintel PCs. It boggles my mind that they were able to charge what they did for C2D based laptops for as long as they did, but considering that the typical Apple laptop consumer is not looking to buy a gaming laptop (if they are, not to be an ass, but they're kind of an idiot) or a high power productivity mobile workstation. Most just want a computer that's easy to use with little hassle and the assurance that they can always take it to the local Apple Store for hands on help if needed. Most people probably don't need much more than the apps that are preinstalled on every Mac (Garage Band, iMove, iDVD, iPhoto, iTunes, etc.) which just makes them all that much easier to use.

Thank you for explaining that.  Yea, I'm going to need processor intensive computers going into the field I'm going in too...Statistics, with what I've heard from speakers, there are times where SAS (one of the major programs), will be programmed (by statisticians like me eventually) to sift through millions of pieces of data.



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The first problem I'm seeing in this thread is people buying prebuilt. If you are buying prebuilt you already fucked up, regardless of what OS you run.



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leatherhat said:

The first problem I'm seeing in this thread is people buying prebuilt. If you are buying prebuilt you already fucked up, regardless of what OS you run.

Most people don't want to go through theh assle of putting together a custom built pc.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

leatherhat said:

The first problem I'm seeing in this thread is people buying prebuilt. If you are buying prebuilt you already fucked up, regardless of what OS you run.

Some of us don't have the time (or patience) to sit around for 6-8 hours building a computer and loading an OS onto it.

Time IS worth money. If you like building a computer yourself, great. But some of us feel there are better things to do. I spend all week ripping apart computers, installing new hardware, updating OSes, etc. I don't feel like doing that shit at home.

I also don't change my own car's oil or work on it at all, even though I am entirely capable of doing so. That's why I have a job... so I don't have to work on shit I don't want to do at home. I'll let someone else do that for me.




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rocketpig said:
leatherhat said:

The first problem I'm seeing in this thread is people buying prebuilt. If you are buying prebuilt you already fucked up, regardless of what OS you run.

Some of us don't have the time (or patience) to sit around for 6-8 hours building a computer and loading an OS onto it.

Time IS worth money. If you like building a computer yourself, great. But some of us feel there are better things to do. I spend all week ripping apart computers, installing new hardware, updating OSes, etc. I don't feel like doing that shit at home.

Not to mention if you buy at the right time and place, you don't really save that much money by doing this.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.