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psrock said:

NGP doesn't need MH4, the PSP made that game. That game was merly nothing before it came to the PSP.  Now, it's simply the biggest 3rd party game in Japan. Capcom would be stupid not that have that game on the NGP. 


I think they will port the current game to 3DS tho, as MH3DS or something. But yeah they will be stupid to not support NGP with MH. Then again I think the next NEW entry might be for ps3



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M.U.G.E.N said:
psrock said:

NGP doesn't need MH4, the PSP made that game. That game was merly nothing before it came to the PSP.  Now, it's simply the biggest 3rd party game in Japan. Capcom would be stupid not that have that game on the NGP. 


I think they will port the current game to 3DS tho, as MH3DS or something. But yeah they will be stupid to not support NGP with MH. Then again I think the next NEW entry might be for ps3

I'm starting to thing the 3ds will get the PSP port as well, it will sell decent, maybe wii like numbers. 



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
M.U.G.E.N said:


wow :D where you start and where you end with your arguments.

you say handhelds are 'blurring' markets because they sell way more, basically. Which is utter nonsense.

Blurring doesn't mean merging or being viewed the same. It means blurring. A lot of devices blurr the lines all the time, doesn't mean anything. smart phones are blurring a lot of lines too, doesn't mean anything. they are not the market leader for gaming as a whole by any means.

Market leader isn't a philosophical question or anything. What sold the most in it's relative market = market leader.You make something simple so complex in your mind. It really isn't.

What's this nonsense about ds gave what they wanted and ps2 gave what they wanted? PS3 also gives what they wanted! lol great games, great hardware, great accessories like torne etc. People won't by them if they didn't 'want' them as you say.

and why are you going on as if you are an expert of Japanese Psyche? :P didn't know you were such an expert on the matter. What other research have you seen on the subject saying this is how they view this and that? would LOVE to see them

again, simple concept for ya, may it be Japan, may it be Mongolia, May it be mars....one products decline in poularity doesn't mean merging of markets. that's rather false and misguided claim to make. the day handhelds can do everything consoles can, and until the day Japanese don't buy home consoles for what they offer, there will be different markets with different target audiences. It's not 'Japanese' logic, it's logic.

man feel like this is never gonna end. Just because wii is struggling in hw and sw sales in Japan doesn't change the fact that it's the market leader for home consoles. It just shows that unlike the ps2 before it, it's a rather weak leader.


Uh, no.  That is exactly what I wasn't saying, hell I even laid out GB & GBA outselling the home consoles of their day as examples that a giant userbase don't make one market leader.  I have no clue how you could get the idea that I was saying biggest userbase = market leader from what I wrote?  It's clearly more involved that that.

The core problem here is you're defining the market by one aspect of the hardware alone (home/portable), and you can't seem to see past that.  The Japanese market today isn't declining, it's different and evolved.  It's blurred and yes, merged. The market that Famicom and PlayStation led isn't led by Wii or PS3, it's led by DS.  DS isn't subjugated into the supplementary role that Game Boy was, it literally leads the market.  This is not in any way difficult to see or understand.

Until the day that Japanese don't buy home consoles for what they offer?  Are you looking at the same weekly hardware sales I am?  The Japanese games market has already moved on... they don't want Wii, they don't want PS3, they want DS, PSP and now 3DS.  NGP will be the death knell for the traditional home console in Japan.  I mean, wtf... how can I be any clearer?  How can the data, the trends?  How could anyone with even an ounce of logic and awareness not see this?



psrock said:

NGP doesn't need MH4, the PSP made that game. That game was merly nothing before it came to the PSP.  Now, it's simply the biggest 3rd party game in Japan. Capcom would be stupid not that have that game on the NGP. 

If PSP is such a king maker, why is it nothing but MoHun can move a million units on the system?

PSP might as well have been a Capcom system, they're single handedly responsible for any success the system has seen.  Sony's been practically asleep at the wheel.



RolStoppable said:
M.U.G.E.N said:

I'll give you that. it definitely isn't as clear cut as last gens for sure. I agree

You're two points made are also good. As of now both points stand true yeah? I mentioned the first point but your second point about game support is good as well. Home consoles are getting some good titles that can be experienced only on them. And the it's obvious without such a thing the market will almost die out 100%. That hasn't happened and I doubt it will happen next gen either.

I expect in the 8th gen the home consoles to offer even more than now comfortably, I wouldn't be too worried about that. Game support, well it's something we will see with time I guess.

I am not sure what to expect from home consoles next gen. Nintendo seems to go in a direction of doing what third parties want, so the N6 probably won't differentiate itself from the handhelds as much as the Wii. That would result in lower sales. Sony's approach probably is to add more non-gaming features to separate their next home console from the NGP, but that's hardly going to work either, because ultimately it's the games that sell a system. Microsoft, well, I suppose they call their next console Xbox-something which makes them niche in Japan by default. I guess they'll buy less exclusivity too as it didn't really pay off this gen, so Microsoft is really the last one I would bet on to save home consoles.

If it wasn't for the west, I'd say Wii should be Nintendo's final home console and they should just go handheld only.  Unfortunately, the western mindset doesn't really align yet with the notion of handhelds being one's primary gaming platform... which this thread kinda drives home, lol.



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jarrod said:
M.U.G.E.N said:


wow :D where you start and where you end with your arguments.

you say handhelds are 'blurring' markets because they sell way more, basically. Which is utter nonsense.

Blurring doesn't mean merging or being viewed the same. It means blurring. A lot of devices blurr the lines all the time, doesn't mean anything. smart phones are blurring a lot of lines too, doesn't mean anything. they are not the market leader for gaming as a whole by any means.

Market leader isn't a philosophical question or anything. What sold the most in it's relative market = market leader.You make something simple so complex in your mind. It really isn't.

What's this nonsense about ds gave what they wanted and ps2 gave what they wanted? PS3 also gives what they wanted! lol great games, great hardware, great accessories like torne etc. People won't by them if they didn't 'want' them as you say.

and why are you going on as if you are an expert of Japanese Psyche? :P didn't know you were such an expert on the matter. What other research have you seen on the subject saying this is how they view this and that? would LOVE to see them

again, simple concept for ya, may it be Japan, may it be Mongolia, May it be mars....one products decline in poularity doesn't mean merging of markets. that's rather false and misguided claim to make. the day handhelds can do everything consoles can, and until the day Japanese don't buy home consoles for what they offer, there will be different markets with different target audiences. It's not 'Japanese' logic, it's logic.

man feel like this is never gonna end. Just because wii is struggling in hw and sw sales in Japan doesn't change the fact that it's the market leader for home consoles. It just shows that unlike the ps2 before it, it's a rather weak leader.


Uh, no.  That is exactly what I wasn't saying, hell I even laid out GB & GBA outselling the home consoles of their day as examples that a giant userbase don't make one market leader.  I have no clue how you could get the idea that I was saying biggest userbase = market leader from what I wrote?  It's clearly more involved that that.

The core problem here is you're defining the market by one aspect of the hardware alone (home/portable), and you can't seem to see past that.  The Japanese market today isn't declining, it's different and evolved.  It's blurred and yes, merged. The market that Famicom and PlayStation led isn't led by Wii or PS3, it's led by DS.  DS isn't subjugated into the supplementary role that Game Boy was, it literally leads the market.  This is not in any way difficult to see or understand.

Until the day that Japanese don't buy home consoles for what they offer?  Are you looking at the same weekly hardware sales I am?  The Japanese games market has already moved on... they don't want Wii, they don't want PS3, they want DS, PSP and now 3DS.  NGP will be the death knell for the traditional home console in Japan.  I mean, wtf... how can I be any clearer?  How can the data, the trends?  How could anyone with even an ounce of logic and awareness not see this?

? how the heck is those two markets merging? you rant on and on about japanese psyche etc etc yet you end up with sales as your argument at the end of the day. NOT THE SAME MARKET! period. again just because handhelds sell more does not mean markets are merging or suddenly how the Japanese market think they are one in the same. Just a narrow minded and wrong way of looking at things. don't worry I doubt you CAN be any clearer how wrong you are. I see smart phones selling loads but I don't suddenly imagine a world where Smart phones are the market leader for everything gaming. There is a reason why the HW is different, there IS a reason why people keep buying HOME consoles along side handhelds, there is a reason why home consoles are still getting some great game support from devs...because there is still a market for them that is DIFFERENT from the handheld audience. You are right, I do not comprehend how anyone with even a simple understanding of what different markets mean would not understand this simple fact. oh wait nvm I think I answered my own Q there.

again just because the current home console leader is weak and performing poorly does not mean it's not the market leader in that segment. It's just a rather weak one which third parties seem to have let go of. Luckily ps3 is still getting a nice stream of games regularly, cuz some Japanese citizens apparently did not get the handhelds and home console merger memo.



In-Kat-We-Trust Brigade!

"This world is Merciless, and it's also very beautiful"

For All News/Info related to the PlayStation Vita, Come and join us in the Official PSV Thread!

psrock said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
psrock said:

NGP doesn't need MH4, the PSP made that game. That game was merly nothing before it came to the PSP.  Now, it's simply the biggest 3rd party game in Japan. Capcom would be stupid not that have that game on the NGP. 


I think they will port the current game to 3DS tho, as MH3DS or something. But yeah they will be stupid to not support NGP with MH. Then again I think the next NEW entry might be for ps3

I'm starting to thing the 3ds will get the PSP port as well, it will sell decent, maybe wii like numbers. 


There is a very simple way to offer a MH game for 3DS that is different from the Portable Saga,and not being some spin-offesque offering:the non Portable series.

MH3G will be on 3DS.This Christmas,sign it :P



jarrod said:
psrock said:

NGP doesn't need MH4, the PSP made that game. That game was merly nothing before it came to the PSP.  Now, it's simply the biggest 3rd party game in Japan. Capcom would be stupid not that have that game on the NGP. 

If PSP is such a king maker, why is it nothing but MoHun can move a million units on the system?

PSP might as well have been a Capcom system, they're single handedly responsible for any success the system has seen.  Sony's been practically asleep at the wheel.


you love list, right. Psp gets about 60% of the games made in Japan, a million or not, you want success as a third party, the PSP is your best choice in Japan.



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
ExtremeBrawler said:
psrock said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
psrock said:

NGP doesn't need MH4, the PSP made that game. That game was merly nothing before it came to the PSP.  Now, it's simply the biggest 3rd party game in Japan. Capcom would be stupid not that have that game on the NGP. 


I think they will port the current game to 3DS tho, as MH3DS or something. But yeah they will be stupid to not support NGP with MH. Then again I think the next NEW entry might be for ps3

I'm starting to thing the 3ds will get the PSP port as well, it will sell decent, maybe wii like numbers. 


There is a very simple way to offer a MH game for 3DS that is different from the Portable Saga,and not being some spin-offesque offering:the non Portable series.

MH3G will be on 3DS.This Christmas,sign it :P

it will be goin against some Mario Game for sure. And, you'll see wh it's on the PSP.



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
M.U.G.E.N said:

? how the heck is those two markets merging? you rant on and on about japanese psyche etc etc yet you end up with sales as your argument at the end of the day. NOT THE SAME MARKET! period. again just because handhelds sell more does not mean markets are merging or suddenly how the Japanese market think they are one in the same. Just a narrow minded and wrong way of looking at things. don't worry I doubt you CAN be any clearer how wrong you are. I see smart phones selling loads but I don't suddenly imagine a world where Smart phones are the market leader for everything gaming. There is a reason why the HW is different, there IS a reason why people keep buying HOME consoles along side handhelds, there is a reason why home consoles are still getting some great game support from devs...because there is still a market for them that is DIFFERENT from the handheld audience. You are right, I do not comprehend how anyone with even a simple understanding of what different markets mean would not understand this simple fact. oh wait nvm I think I answered my own Q there.

again just because the current home console leader is weak and performing poorly does not mean it's not the market leader in that segment. It's just a rather weak one which third parties seem to have let go of. Luckily ps3 is still getting a nice stream of games regularly, cuz some Japanese citizens apparently did not get the handhelds and home console merger memo.


It IS the same market.  It's where the developer interest is, where the publisher attention is, the press coverage is, and most importantly where the audience has gone.  And yet you're still hung up on comparing userbase with smartphones or whatever?  And I'm the one who's narrowminded? LOL

And wtf at that last cheerleading paragraph?  Have you been paying attention to JP sales at all the past several years?  PS3 is Japan's biggest scale failure since N64 (only N64 actually sold games), it's still getting  a stream of support for reasons that have almost nothing to with it's actual performance in Japan.  Hell, 360's getting most of the same games anyway, and it's an unqualified non-entity in the region.  Wii's hardly alone in this, ALL home consoles are "performing poorly" in Japan this cycle.  At least 360 and Wii can boast to have tripled/quadrupled sales gen over gen, rather than quartering them... the decline of home consoles in Japan can be linked most directly to the decline of PlayStation in Japan.