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Sony's plan to usurp 3DS with their PSP2 revealed

Sony FTW! 185 69.55%
 
Nintendo is d0med 81 30.45%
 
Total:266
MaxwellGT2000 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Linkasf said:

Exactly. I love Naughty Dog, and sadly they aren't working on this Uncharted. Who knows, maybe the guys at Naughty Dog have got something up their sleeve for the NGP that we haven't seen yet.


I've yet to see one of Sonys main teams work on big handheld titles, the only one I can list off is Sony Japan working on a couple of Ape Escape titles, which were really basic stuff, not like pushing what they could do with the system.  It's hard to say if Naughty Dog will ever be put to work on a handheld title.

these types of statements show how little you know of the device. I suggest do a bit more research next time before posting such rubbish


Then tell me what PSP games Naughty Dogg, Insomniac, Santa monica, or even an exclusive third party team like Sucker Punch.  Those are the three big teams that people see Sony, see their IPs, and attach them to Sony.  For someone so "knowledgeable" you're rather rude while not posting any examples.  


I'm not gonna get into a debate about what these so called 'people' think are major teams for sony are etc. For 'you' some teams may seem like the be all end all but sony first party (apart from few) have all pitched in on the psp. I'm sure you have google, go check out what sony first party teams (there are quite few btw) have done on the psp. You will find a nice list of high quality games with known IP's.

And also if you are gonna list 2nd party games, please do some looking into that as well. You might find some surprises there as well.

Just because YOU don't know them or attatch them to Sony or w/e doesn't mean it's the same for all. Such generalizations are silly and kinda obvious. Hence why I said, do a bit more research before making such statements. Saying sony dev teams have done nothing significant or has not taken good use of the HW is another ignorant statement to be frank. Honestly, what psp games have you played exactly? Nothing rude, but then again I won't sugar coat it for you either.

go ahead look into it, what sony first party and second party has done on the psp ;) have fun.

oh and btw, few of the first party studios that didn't directly make games for the psp, collab'd with other studios on their psp ventures too



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M.U.G.E.N said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Linkasf said:

Exactly. I love Naughty Dog, and sadly they aren't working on this Uncharted. Who knows, maybe the guys at Naughty Dog have got something up their sleeve for the NGP that we haven't seen yet.


I've yet to see one of Sonys main teams work on big handheld titles, the only one I can list off is Sony Japan working on a couple of Ape Escape titles, which were really basic stuff, not like pushing what they could do with the system.  It's hard to say if Naughty Dog will ever be put to work on a handheld title.

these types of statements show how little you know of the device. I suggest do a bit more research next time before posting such rubbish


Then tell me what PSP games Naughty Dogg, Insomniac, Santa monica, or even an exclusive third party team like Sucker Punch.  Those are the three big teams that people see Sony, see their IPs, and attach them to Sony.  For someone so "knowledgeable" you're rather rude while not posting any examples.  


I'm not gonna get into a debate about what these so called 'people' think are major teams for sony are etc. For 'you' some teams may seem like the be all end all but sony first party (apart from few) have all pitched in on the psp. I'm sure you have google, go check out what sony first party teams (there are quite few btw) have done on the psp. You will find a nice list of high quality games with known IP's.

And also if you are gonna list 2nd party games, please do some looking into that as well. You might find some surprises there as well.

Just because YOU don't know them or attatch them to Sony or w/e doesn't mean it's the same for all. Such generalizations are silly and kinda obvious. Hence why I said, do a bit more research before making such statements. Saying sony dev teams have done nothing significant or has not taken good use of the HW is another ignorant statement to be frank. Honestly, what psp games have you played exactly? Nothing rude, but then again I won't sugar coat it for you either.

go ahead look into it, what sony first party and second party has done on the psp ;) have fun.

oh and btw, few of the first party studios that didn't directly make games for the psp, collab'd with other studios on their psp ventures too


So what you're saying is you don't have any evidence to back up this claim while I can go with wiki as I already have and see how the tell known IPs like R&C, Jak & Daxter, and Twisted Metal all have been outsourced to other teams, and it's reflected by how the games don't live up to the others in the series.  Literally the only games I could list developed or at least co-developed by their main branches is Killzone Liberation, Gran Turismo, and Little Big Planet. One of those didn't make it past a million, one was slammed by reviews cause it removed the features of the main series, and one was basically an intact version of its console counterpart but it too lacked one of it's key features, multiplayer.

So what I said in the beginning is still true, as a rule the main studios don't work on their IPs on the handheld, and the ones that do like Sony Japan,etc don't put the time into their games on the handheld to make them as good as the console counterparts, all this while usually not making their games with the pick up and play only to put back down in a few minutes mentallity in mind.

So yet again I ask you to give me some proof of how this is not the general rule and it's already the case with many NGP games (EX: Uncharted).



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MaxwellGT2000 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Linkasf said:

Exactly. I love Naughty Dog, and sadly they aren't working on this Uncharted. Who knows, maybe the guys at Naughty Dog have got something up their sleeve for the NGP that we haven't seen yet.


I've yet to see one of Sonys main teams work on big handheld titles, the only one I can list off is Sony Japan working on a couple of Ape Escape titles, which were really basic stuff, not like pushing what they could do with the system.  It's hard to say if Naughty Dog will ever be put to work on a handheld title.

these types of statements show how little you know of the device. I suggest do a bit more research next time before posting such rubbish


Then tell me what PSP games Naughty Dogg, Insomniac, Santa monica, or even an exclusive third party team like Sucker Punch.  Those are the three big teams that people see Sony, see their IPs, and attach them to Sony.  For someone so "knowledgeable" you're rather rude while not posting any examples.  


I'm not gonna get into a debate about what these so called 'people' think are major teams for sony are etc. For 'you' some teams may seem like the be all end all but sony first party (apart from few) have all pitched in on the psp. I'm sure you have google, go check out what sony first party teams (there are quite few btw) have done on the psp. You will find a nice list of high quality games with known IP's.

And also if you are gonna list 2nd party games, please do some looking into that as well. You might find some surprises there as well.

Just because YOU don't know them or attatch them to Sony or w/e doesn't mean it's the same for all. Such generalizations are silly and kinda obvious. Hence why I said, do a bit more research before making such statements. Saying sony dev teams have done nothing significant or has not taken good use of the HW is another ignorant statement to be frank. Honestly, what psp games have you played exactly? Nothing rude, but then again I won't sugar coat it for you either.

go ahead look into it, what sony first party and second party has done on the psp ;) have fun.

oh and btw, few of the first party studios that didn't directly make games for the psp, collab'd with other studios on their psp ventures too


So what you're saying is you don't have any evidence to back up this claim while I can go with wiki as I already have and see how the tell known IPs like R&C, Jak & Daxter, and Twisted Metal all have been outsourced to other teams, and it's reflected by how the games don't live up to the others in the series.  Literally the only games I could list developed or at least co-developed by their main branches is Killzone Liberation, Gran Turismo, and Little Big Planet. One of those didn't make it past a million, one was slammed by reviews cause it removed the features of the main series, and one was basically an intact version of its console counterpart but it too lacked one of it's key features, multiplayer.

So what I said in the beginning is still true, as a rule the main studios don't work on their IPs on the handheld, and the ones that do like Sony Japan,etc don't put the time into their games on the handheld to make them as good as the console counterparts, all this while usually not making their games with the pick up and play only to put back down in a few minutes mentallity in mind.

So yet again I ask you to give me some proof of how this is not the general rule and it's already the case with many NGP games (EX: Uncharted).

lol well there ya go...slowly starting to see some new games other than japan studios eh? good good.

you see I could have listed all the games but it why should I, you should look it up yourself

This is what you said that I said was rubbish

"
I've yet to see one of Sonys main teams work on big handheld titles, the only one I can list off is Sony Japan working on a couple of Ape Escape titles,"

so you are changing your initial statement left and right now....suddenly the most renouned sony dev Polypony has made the GT portable for the psp themselves....suddenly GG have made a killzone for the psp..if you keep looking you will see games like syphon filter were also made by those who made the console ones...keep going and you will see zipper has done on the psp...keep this going you might actually see what other teams like Sony Bend, cambridge etc are doing. and btw from the looks of it Media Molecule will be doing NGP LBP.

at least there's some improvement...after oh noez I can't think of anything but ape escape you have started to find out about some more games, which should atleast show how bs your initial statement was...doing some research helped eh? good good

and now you're into a new topic saying bla bla this feature wasn't there etc etc. My goodnes man, give it a rest already. the handheld version doesn't need to be exactly like the console one cuz frankly not many will even use all the options...something you should if you played the games you mentioned.

I'm not gonna get into why reviews were wrong on xx game here, that's gonna take a lot of time to talk about for every game and frankly I don't wanna waste my time. Point stands, what you said earlier was absolute nonsense...what you are 'trying' now is to deviate from the initial statement and say but but the MP? the salez? Dunno if you have played the games yourself (from the sound of it, since you can't form your own opinion on them) but most of those games are top notch in quality. But again that wasn't even what this was about in the first place so I will leave it at that. But I assure you, lot of those games DO live up to console counterparts.

Anyways look into it more to see other titles from first and second party devs for the PSP ;) at least try not to make rubbish claims as you did for which I quoted you



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M.U.G.E.N said:

 Anyways look into it more to see other titles from first and second party devs for the PSP ;) at least try not to make rubbish claims as you did for which I quoted you

Eh, no, what he's saying is pretty much correct.  SCE still seems to generally treat their handhelds as "secondary", their franchises on them are usually smaller scale and/or handed off to "secondary" (ie: handheld or DD) teams (GOW, R&C, Jak, LBP, etc) and they're definitely still continuing the trend for NGP (Killzone, Uncharted, etc).  Japan seems to be the only one really putting their mainline console teams on handheld entires (GT, Mingol).  

Nintendo on the other hand, and really starting with DS, puts their home console teams on the same large brands for the most part.  This is definitely continuing on with 3DS too, in fact we even have traditionally console teams doing 3DS games that never really did for DS (EAD Tokyo, Monster Games).

Looking at the shown 1st party lineups for 3DS and NGP really drives home the difference in development ideologies when it comes to handhelds between Nintendo and SCE... 

 

Nintendo 3DS

  • AR Games / Mii Quest / etc (Nintendo EAD) bundled game software, tech demo-ish
  • Nintendogs plus Cats (Nintendo EAD) core Nintendogs team, which was originally a GC project
  • Steel Diver (Nintendo EAD / Vitei) Miyamoto's pet project, new IP
  • Pilotwings Resort (Monster Games) same team as Excite Truck, mostly console studio
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (Nintendo EAD) core Zelda team
  • Star Fox 64 3D (Nintendo EAD) presumably core Star Fox team
  • Kid Icarus: Uprising (Project Sora) same team as Smash Brawl, mostly console studio
  • Mario Kart (Nintendo EAD) core Mario Kart team
  • Animal Crossing (Nintendo EAD) core Animal Crossing team
  • Paper Mario (Intelligent Systems) core Paper Mario team
  • Super Mario (Nintendo EAD Tokyo) core Galaxy team, mostly console studio

PlayStation NGP

  • Uncharted Portable (Sony Bend) not the core Uncharted team, mostly handheld studio
  • Killzone (Studio Cambridge) not the core Killzone team, mostly handheld studio
  • Resistance (Nihilstic Software) not the core Resistance team, outsourced entirely
  • LittleBigPlanet (Media Molecule) core LBP team
  • Hot Shots Golf Next (Clap Hanz) core Mingol team
  • WipEout (Studio Liverpool) core WipEout team, mostly handheld/DD studio
  • Little Deviants (bigBig Studios) new IP, mostly handheld studio, tech demo-ish
  • Gravity Daze (Alvion?) new IP, mostly handheld/DD studio
  • Hustle Kings (VooFoo Studios) mostly DD studio
  • Reality Fighters (TBA) new IP, tech demo-ish
  • Smart As (TBA) new IP, looks like shovelware
  • Broken (TBA) new IP, tech demo-ish


jarrod said:

M.U.G.E.N said:

 Anyways look into it more to see other titles from first and second party devs for the PSP ;) at least try not to make rubbish claims as you did for which I quoted you

Eh, no, what he's saying is pretty much correct.  SCE still seems to generally treat their handhelds as "secondary", their franchises on them are usually smaller scale and/or handed off to "secondary" (ie: handheld or DD) teams (GOW, R&C, Jak, LBP, etc) and they're definitely still continuing the trend for NGP (Killzone, Uncharted, etc).  Japan seems to be the only one really putting their mainline console teams on handheld entires (GT, Mingol).  

1. don't care about nintendo, not sure what the point of you typing all that was, didn;t even bother reading it. This is about psp

2. If you also think his statement about how he can't think of any other major studio support for the psp other than japan studio and 'ape escape' I won't waste anymore of my time with you (or him for that matter)

3. Sony first party have always supported the handhelds well. Just because Santa Monica (well they did colab on GoS) and ND and few others didn't pitch in on the psp doesn't mean anything

4. Doesn't seem like any of you have played games made by teams like Bend for the psp. hence this nonsense of 'treating as secondary' comes to play. Games will be smaller obviously on the handheld, expecting otherwise is foolishness. And main teams who worked on the original IP made the same games for the handheld too like GG, PD, Inocognito, Bend, Zipper. All those game were of good quality as well.

seriously not sure why I even bother at this point :S you guys are stuck in this one frame of mind about the psp and support it got that you refuse to look beyond it. I'm done with this thread and responding to ignorant comments like this.



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M.U.G.E.N said:

1. don't care about nintendo, not sure what the point of you typing all that was, didn;t even bother reading it. This is about psp

2. If you also think his statement about how he can't think of any other major studio support for the psp other than japan studio and 'ape escape' I won't waste anymore of my time with you (or him for that matter)

3. Sony first party have always supported the handhelds well. Just because Santa Monica (well they did colab on GoS) and ND and few others didn't pitch in on the psp doesn't mean anything

4. Doesn't seem like any of you have played games made by teams like Bend for the psp. hence this nonsense of 'treating as secondary' comes to play. Games will be smaller obviously on the handheld, expecting otherwise is foolishness. And main teams who worked on the original IP made the same games for the handheld too like GG, PD, Inocognito, Bend, Zipper. All those game were of good quality as well.

seriously not sure why I even bother at this point :S you guys are stuck in this one frame of mind about the psp and support it got that you refuse to look beyond it. I'm done with this thread and responding to ignorant comments like this.

1. Actually, this thread is about 3DS and NGP.  I just brought us full circle and back on topic. ;)

2. You're missing his point, it's that (mostly) only Japan really seems to take PlayStation handhelds seriously.  SCEA/SCEE doesn't, they farm out brands to secondary teams or largely just don't put in the effort.  And this thinking seems to have jumped right over to NGP, despite their clear failings with this approach for PSP in the west. 

3. No, having their AAA teams not make PSP/NGP games means exactly that they're not supporting the handheld side as well as they should be.  This is why I drew the Nintendo comparison, they literally bring their A game to DS/3DS, it's the real deal.  This is why they dominate, because essentially they don't believe in the "handheld ghetto".  Sony's ideology is their biggest enemy in the handheld arena.

4. It's not just teams, it's scope (which I mentioned before).  Super Mario or Mario Kart or Animal Crossing... across handhelds or consoles, they share a similar scope.  It's the "full experience", on DS or Wii (or now 3DS).  Killzone Liberation?  GT Portable?  Fireteam Bravo 1-2?  They're all cut down, smaller scope, smaller scale, sometimes different genre even, than their console counterparts.  Even just PS2 ports probably would've been preferable in all those cases.  And for Killzone and SOCOM, they've even moved to outsourced teams since.



this is just the worst thread ever



M.U.G.E.N said:

lol well there ya go...slowly starting to see some new games other than japan studios eh? good good.

you see I could have listed all the games but it why should I, you should look it up yourself

This is what you said that I said was rubbish

"
I've yet to see one of Sonys main teams work on big handheld titles, the only one I can list off is Sony Japan working on a couple of Ape Escape titles,"

so you are changing your initial statement left and right now....suddenly the most renouned sony dev Polypony has made the GT portable for the psp themselves....suddenly GG have made a killzone for the psp..if you keep looking you will see games like syphon filter were also made by those who made the console ones...keep going and you will see zipper has done on the psp...keep this going you might actually see what other teams like Sony Bend, cambridge etc are doing. and btw from the looks of it Media Molecule will be doing NGP LBP.

at least there's some improvement...after oh noez I can't think of anything but ape escape you have started to find out about some more games, which should atleast show how bs your initial statement was...doing some research helped eh? good good

and now you're into a new topic saying bla bla this feature wasn't there etc etc. My goodnes man, give it a rest already. the handheld version doesn't need to be exactly like the console one cuz frankly not many will even use all the options...something you should if you played the games you mentioned.

I'm not gonna get into why reviews were wrong on xx game here, that's gonna take a lot of time to talk about for every game and frankly I don't wanna waste my time. Point stands, what you said earlier was absolute nonsense...what you are 'trying' now is to deviate from the initial statement and say but but the MP? the salez? Dunno if you have played the games yourself (from the sound of it, since you can't form your own opinion on them) but most of those games are top notch in quality. But again that wasn't even what this was about in the first place so I will leave it at that. But I assure you, lot of those games DO live up to console counterparts.

Anyways look into it more to see other titles from first and second party devs for the PSP ;) at least try not to make rubbish claims as you did for which I quoted you


Another tl:dr comment, skimmed and saw no work on your part so you get none on mine and that's that basically. 

Uhm "Only one I can list off" I guess you don't seem to comprehend that means the only one I can list off the top of my head right then, that's typically what people mean when they say such statements, if you want to debate a statement like that you actually put in work to set things straight, not doing so is "rubbish" lol which I don't know why you get such an attitude about everything, I've yet to baselessly gripe about the PSP, and enjoy mine when the occasional good game comes out, but sadly Sony really doesn't put it's best foot forward on their handhelds and I'm left with a lot of outsourced first party titles or waiting for Capcom or Square to make something I want to play.



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RolStoppable said:
thismeintiel said:
RolStoppable said:

It's just that his English is pretty bad. I am quite sure he meant to say that there were no mainline Mario and Pokémon games made for the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube, only spinoffs.

While I'll give him that Nintendo seems to be missing a HUGE opportunity and didn't/haven't put out a Pokemon game like that found on its handhelds for its home consoles, they still didn't lack Mario games.  I don't think Mario 64 or Mario Sunshine could hardly be called a "spinoff."  Especially not Mario 64.  Heck, many proclaimed it as the shining example that games could make the transition from 2-D to 3-D, but it still didn't save the N64.  Of course, both systems still saw releases of mainline titles in Nintendo's other popular series, Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, Metroid and Kirby.  Then they also had a new popular series, Super Smash Bros., when contained characters from all their other franchises.

Super Mario 64 and Sunshine are spinoffs of the mainline, just like Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2. You just need to look at the sales, it's obvious that the 3D Mario games are not considered direct sequels to the Super Mario Bros. titles. On the Wii we finally got to see the mainline and the spinoff series in direct competition and the mainline easily won despite it being a comparison in favor of 3D Mario (one game vs. two and higher production values like orchestrated sound).

Of course the addition of some mainline Mario and Pokémon games to the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube wouldn't have made Nintendo win those generations, because they made way too many other mistakes for that to happen at the time.

And that was my original point.  No amount of Nintendo franchises, even if the games are liked and are good, can make up for HW that doesn't interest people.  However, your comment about Mario 64 being a spin off is incorrect.  It was indeed a main entry to the series.  You can't justify calling a game a spinoff because it is in 3D as opposed to 2D.  Of course the previous ones were in 2D, the HW couldn't handle anything else.  But, when the HW could handle 3D well, they made the shift to 3D just like all franchises at that time.  I mean that would be like saying every Zelda game  now, except the one on the DS, are spinoffs because they are in 3D.  It's just not true.  And you definitely can't go by sales to determine what is a main entry and what is a spin-off.

@ maxwellgt

I'm still waiting for pics of games that are on the 3DS that completely blow away games found on the PSP.