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Forums - Nintendo - Innovation in software is the source of Nintendo's decline

RolStoppable said:

I'm taking note that the innovation of the Spirit Tracks entry in Zelda isn't being responded to here.

The Mario Kart to consoles sold ratio doesn't really disprove that consoles sold are tied to the quality of Nintendo's flagship games, so I guess you are agreeing with me that Double Dash!! wasn't all that.

Metroid Prime marks the starting point of a new series, that means it's the game that was setting the standards to which future entries are compared. The entire Metroid Prime series is consistent and doesn't show any signs of innovation. The thing with Metroid is the same as with Metroid Prime. The first entry is the exception, not the rule.

How many sales numbers for Fire Emblem are recorded on VGC anyway? Besides, the DS didn't have any new entries in the series, only two remakes that were mostly about graphical changes with gameplay commands remaining the same as in the original games. The GBA version of A Link to the Past didn't outsell the SNES original either, despite coming with Four Swords. The point is that remakes shouldn't be used to judge the sales performance of a series.

This topic is about Nintendo cramming ideas into established series instead of creating new IPs for them. You will notice that Nintendo's growth is based on keeping existing series intact and using new ideas in new IPs. Basically, this thread is about Nintendo using their ideas in the wrong way.

is thread using sales of games as a metric or personal opinion because it is all over the place.



Everyday I'm hustlin'.

 

Wii and DS owner.

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RolStoppable said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

"because I am saying that people picked it up expecting a FPS and that can only hold up for initial sales, so the first two months at best"

The problem is they need a reason to assume it's an FPS, and what would make them do that? The marketing didn't make it look like an FPS, and that is one of the chief ways to confuse costumers of what a game is about.

Screenshots (which were also on the back of the packaging) and videos showing a first person perspective and something that is easily identified as some sort of gun. Heck, to this very day some people still call Metroid Prime a FPS. They obviously haven't played any of the games, but it shows how easy it is to confuse the series with a FPS.


That just means some classify it as that genre, not that perhaps a million or more bought it expecting another Halo or Goldeney.

Plus you obviously didn't notice how much disappointment was expressed over Prime 2, which can hurt word of mouth, while Prime 1 did NOT have loads of complaints that it wasn't another Halo or Goldeneye. Some wished it controlled more like those, but they did not claim the game sucked because of that.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

F-Zero needs some love too...  I miss you F-Zero.  Also, you should add Starfox like Scoobs said.  Pikmin could use a honorable mention also.  I'd like to see your insight on those 3 series.



Why start with Super Mario World 2?

Isn't SMB 2 a textbook example of what you're talking about?

40M (bundled) for SMB dropping to 7.5M for SMB 2 rising to 17M with SMB 3.

 

Isn't adding Yoshi to SMW or multiplayer to NSMB Wii just as 'innovative' (gimmicky?) as the 2 player/kart addition to Double Dash?



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

the problem with Wii atm, is that the motion controls got an huge initial success and they got old way too fast resulting in decline

Nintendo has run out of ideas with Wii lately, no huge sellers and no word for vitality sensor, except if Nintendo is planning for Wii2

also, Nintendo's 3DS focus and promotion lest the Wii a bit on the side



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

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dark_gh0st_b0y said:

the problem with Wii atm, is that the motion controls got an huge initial success and they got old way too fast resulting in decline

Nintendo has run out of ideas with Wii lately, no huge sellers and no word for vitality sensor, except if Nintendo is planning for Wii2

also, Nintendo's 3DS focus and promotion lest the Wii a bit on the side

the big problem with motion control games is that these games are a completely new medium for this generation so when nintendo released the wii they where really treding new ground with all their motion control gaming. So they went with the best option they could come up with and released a bunch of different motion control games seeing what has worked and what hasn't. After that first initial launch nintendo seems to have eased up on the number of motion control games, releasing more refind games like wii sports resort about once a year. the problem came when third parties wanted to get a piece of nintendo's pie and went about throwing as many motion control games out as they could resulting in an over saturation of the market.



RolStoppable said:

The Mario Kart to consoles sold ratio doesn't really disprove that consoles sold are tied to the quality of Nintendo's flagship games, so I guess you are agreeing with me that Double Dash!! wasn't all that.

No, I am saying that correlation does not imply causation, and trying to draw conclusions to that effect is either dishonest or simply wrong.



just going to say quit with the baseless assumption that most of metroid primes sales are due to people thinking it was a fps

you have no basis for this so shut it



another great thread from the always invoking Rol.



RolStoppable said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Why start with Super Mario World 2?

Isn't SMB 2 a textbook example of what you're talking about?

40M (bundled) for SMB dropping to 7.5M for SMB 2 rising to 17M with SMB 3.

 

Isn't adding Yoshi to SMW or multiplayer to NSMB Wii just as 'innovative' (gimmicky?) as the 2 player/kart addition to Double Dash?

I said "I could go on" in the original post, so obviously there are more examples. The common point is that innovation within series usually leads to decline while refinement usually leads to success.

Yoshi in SMW and the NSMB Wii multiplayer aren't the same as the Double Dash!! stuff. The former things you can choose to ignore, if you don't like them, just don't use them.

The Double Dash!! mechanics you are stuck with and what's actually more annoying about that game (which I forgot to mention in the OP) are character specific items which are a big source of imbalance due to individual items being limited to two characters each (ignoring Piranha Pete and King Boo who can get everything by random chance). Playing with Toad or Toadette (or even both) in four player splitscreen gives you a huge advantage and the only way to balance the game is to turn items off altogether.

Ah ok, I always assumed you could turn it off.

Still, would it really have sold much more if you had the option to turn it off?



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!