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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

superchunk on 22 February 2011
hehey said:

Well, mr attoerney, explain to me how the big bad corporations are screwing over this time... no fairy tales like that other guy please.


Because all you people against geohot in this lawsuit are being ignorant of the actual case and its ramifications.

I have been very vocal about anti-piracy, but that is not what this is about. Its about who owns a product you purchase.

Does Sony still one the PS3 once you laid out your $300plus for it? or do you?

If geohot wins, then the status quo stands and the purchaser fully owns all rights to the product they purchased.

If Sony wins, then a precedent is set where ANY company can then force the end user to use or not use any product in a way that the company sees fit.

Imagine not being able to put custom paint or rims on your car, because Ford doesn't want their image associated with that style.

Imagine Dell revoking your PC because you installed a virus protection that wasn't Mcafee because that is who they have a special deal with.

Imagine Sony making a clause that their TVs will only work with other Sony products, i.e. dvd/bluray players.

This is all feasible and lawful if Sony wins. It gives the manufacturer complete control after purchase.

This is why I stand with geohot. Not because his work enabled piracy, that I loathe. But because when I spend hundreds of dollars on a product, I have the full right to do whatever the fuck I want with it within the boundries of the law.

An example I keep using is my Android phone. If I want to root it and remove all the Verizon bloatware, I have every damn right to. If Sony wins, I could be sued for personalizing my product.



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Spankey on 22 February 2011
Ail said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?

Actually the issue for Sony is more customers support.

They have to deal with the following with CFW :

- People using CFW to cheat in online games, affecting others users.

- People that distribute malicious CFW that harm those users that install them ( by stealing their data, bricking PS3 and  so on..). They may not have to support those as they install those at their own risks, but you can be sure some of the people that encounter those issues are still going to complain to Sony if such a thing happen and they will swear to all gods they didn't install anything illegal to try to get that support. It's wasted time and money for Sony customer support department and a headache to handle in terms of PR...

- People trying to use those CFW to attack the PSN ( it's already started), Which in the ends costs Sony money..


very effing true that.



Proud Sony Rear Admiral

MaxwellGT2000 on 22 February 2011
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?


Your argument steps into the field is it okay to modify your operating systems, if you go by PCs then yes, if you go by consoles of old, then yes to that as well, what makes the PS3 so special and different from these cases?  If you own the console you own the console and have the right to make your own OS or run an OS someone made on it.  But I feel this debate is rather silly, modding was never an issue till this gen... for whatever reason >_>

Geohot has a history of opening up technology to be more consumer friendly and no that doesn't mean being able to pirate, but having things like the iPhone where it wasn't restricted to only AT&T, with this crack for the PS3 you can make your own Linux on it again and on top of that it's renergized the PS3 linux community.  

Just my two cents



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

Ail on 22 February 2011
Spankey said:
Ail said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?

Actually the issue for Sony is more customers support.

They have to deal with the following with CFW :

- People using CFW to cheat in online games, affecting others users.

- People that distribute malicious CFW that harm those users that install them ( by stealing their data, bricking PS3 and  so on..). They may not have to support those as they install those at their own risks, but you can be sure some of the people that encounter those issues are still going to complain to Sony if such a thing happen and they will swear to all gods they didn't install anything illegal to try to get that support. It's wasted time and money for Sony customer support department and a headache to handle in terms of PR...

- People trying to use those CFW to attack the PSN ( it's already started), Which in the ends costs Sony money..


very effing true that.

And in the end Sony is a business so they will push back that cost to users ( they could decide to charge for PSN for example if keeping it cheater free is too much of a hassle..).

PS : It doesn't even have to be malicious CFW, just badly designed one. The first one that were distributed bricked some of the old PS3 for example...



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

irstupid on 22 February 2011
superchunk said:
hehey said:
 

Well, mr attoerney, explain to me how the big bad corporations are screwing over this time... no fairy tales like that other guy please.


Because all you people against geohot in this lawsuit are being ignorant of the actual case and its ramifications.

I have been very vocal about anti-piracy, but that is not what this is about. Its about who owns a product you purchase.

Does Sony still one the PS3 once you laid out your $300plus for it? or do you?

If geohot wins, then the status quo stands and the purchaser fully owns all rights to the product they purchased.

If Sony wins, then a precedent is set where ANY company can then force the end user to use or not use any product in a way that the company sees fit.

Imagine not being able to put custom paint or rims on your car, because Ford doesn't want their image associated with that style.

Imagine Dell revoking your PC because you installed a virus protection that wasn't Mcafee because that is who they have a special deal with.

Imagine Sony making a clause that their TVs will only work with other Sony products, i.e. dvd/bluray players.

This is all feasible and lawful if Sony wins. It gives the manufacturer complete control after purchase.

This is why I stand with geohot. Not because his work enabled piracy, that I loathe. But because when I spend hundreds of dollars on a product, I have the full right to do whatever the fuck I want with it within the boundries of the law.

An example I keep using is my Android phone. If I want to root it and remove all the Verizon bloatware, I have every damn right to. If Sony wins, I could be sued for personalizing my product.

here i'll save the trouble for all you out there that won't be able to respond to this post

 

but, but, but pirates.... steal $60 game, bad.  Sony good.



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Spankey on 22 February 2011
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?


Your argument steps into the field is it okay to modify your operating systems, if you go by PCs then yes, if you go by consoles of old, then yes to that as well, what makes the PS3 so special and different from these cases?  If you own the console you own the console and have the right to make your own OS or run an OS someone made on it.  But I feel this debate is rather silly, modding was never an issue till this gen... for whatever reason >_>

Geohot has a history of opening up technology to be more consumer friendly and no that doesn't mean being able to pirate, but having things like the iPhone where it wasn't restricted to only AT&T, with this crack for the PS3 you can make your own Linux on it again and on top of that it's renergized the PS3 linux community.  

Just my two cents


it would have been interesting if GeoHot had found a way to completelely remove the OS from the PS3 - leave it utterly blank - unable to play PS3 games and free of PSN in otherwords - and have the ability to run a completely different OS (maybe a yellow dog variant or some other Linux or some such) instead of offering a method to modify Sony's software.

but isn't that what the US Navy and other reasearch organisations have legally done?



Proud Sony Rear Admiral

irstupid on 22 February 2011
Spankey said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?


Your argument steps into the field is it okay to modify your operating systems, if you go by PCs then yes, if you go by consoles of old, then yes to that as well, what makes the PS3 so special and different from these cases?  If you own the console you own the console and have the right to make your own OS or run an OS someone made on it.  But I feel this debate is rather silly, modding was never an issue till this gen... for whatever reason >_>

Geohot has a history of opening up technology to be more consumer friendly and no that doesn't mean being able to pirate, but having things like the iPhone where it wasn't restricted to only AT&T, with this crack for the PS3 you can make your own Linux on it again and on top of that it's renergized the PS3 linux community.  

Just my two cents


it would have been interesting if GeoHot had found a way to completelely remove the OS from the PS3 - leave it utterly blank - unable to play PS3 games and free of PSN in otherwords - and have the ability to run a completely different OS (maybe a yellow dog variant or some other Linux or some such) instead of offering a method to modify Sony's software.

but isn't that what the US Navy and other reasearch organisations have legally done?

if sony wins this, then what the us navy and other research organizations have and are doing would then become illegal

superchunk said it nicely in his post

if i want to have a giant swastika on the hood of my car, i damn well can do that.  Will chevy be happy if i'm driving around with that on their vehicle?  probably not, but i can put whatever i want on MY CAR.

If i buy a house, i can paint the house inside and out.  If i rent a house, i need to get permission before i do that.

I OWN my ps3, i'm not renting it.  I can do waht i want with it, legally of course



Spankey on 22 February 2011
irstupid said:
Spankey said:


it would have been interesting if GeoHot had found a way to completelely remove the OS from the PS3 - leave it utterly blank - unable to play PS3 games and free of PSN in otherwords - and have the ability to run a completely different OS (maybe a yellow dog variant or some other Linux or some such) instead of offering a method to modify Sony's software.

but isn't that what the US Navy and other reasearch organisations have legally done?

if sony wins this, then what the us navy and other research organizations have and are doing would then become illegal


i'm not too convinced that it would...I think it's the tampering of their software and the potential fuckery with the games and PSN revenue they're concerned with, not the OS removal. If Geohet wins, then perhaps we might see Sony offer a PS3 OS removal kit, but i guess we'll find out soon enough lol



Proud Sony Rear Admiral

radiantshadow92 on 22 February 2011
irstupid said:
Spankey said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?


Your argument steps into the field is it okay to modify your operating systems, if you go by PCs then yes, if you go by consoles of old, then yes to that as well, what makes the PS3 so special and different from these cases?  If you own the console you own the console and have the right to make your own OS or run an OS someone made on it.  But I feel this debate is rather silly, modding was never an issue till this gen... for whatever reason >_>

Geohot has a history of opening up technology to be more consumer friendly and no that doesn't mean being able to pirate, but having things like the iPhone where it wasn't restricted to only AT&T, with this crack for the PS3 you can make your own Linux on it again and on top of that it's renergized the PS3 linux community.  

Just my two cents


it would have been interesting if GeoHot had found a way to completelely remove the OS from the PS3 - leave it utterly blank - unable to play PS3 games and free of PSN in otherwords - and have the ability to run a completely different OS (maybe a yellow dog variant or some other Linux or some such) instead of offering a method to modify Sony's software.

but isn't that what the US Navy and other reasearch organisations have legally done?

if sony wins this, then what the us navy and other research organizations have and are doing would then become illegal

That is a lie. They have direct permission from Sony to do whatever they have to do.



Ail on 22 February 2011
irstupid said:
Spankey said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Spankey said:

modding the PS3 console itself is at best warranty voiding.

The problem is that people are not separating the console hardware (which the purchaser owns) from the OS software on the console (which Sony owns)

modding one's fine (if you're willing to void the warranty) but modding the other and telling others how to do it is another thing which the courts will decide on.

does Sony's legal team also have a fund i can donate to? I know who'd I'd rather give my money to.

Sony has a responsibility to protect the interests of its shareholders. GeoHot & crew have a responsibility to...?


Your argument steps into the field is it okay to modify your operating systems, if you go by PCs then yes, if you go by consoles of old, then yes to that as well, what makes the PS3 so special and different from these cases?  If you own the console you own the console and have the right to make your own OS or run an OS someone made on it.  But I feel this debate is rather silly, modding was never an issue till this gen... for whatever reason >_>

Geohot has a history of opening up technology to be more consumer friendly and no that doesn't mean being able to pirate, but having things like the iPhone where it wasn't restricted to only AT&T, with this crack for the PS3 you can make your own Linux on it again and on top of that it's renergized the PS3 linux community.  

Just my two cents


it would have been interesting if GeoHot had found a way to completelely remove the OS from the PS3 - leave it utterly blank - unable to play PS3 games and free of PSN in otherwords - and have the ability to run a completely different OS (maybe a yellow dog variant or some other Linux or some such) instead of offering a method to modify Sony's software.

but isn't that what the US Navy and other reasearch organisations have legally done?

if sony wins this, then what the us navy and other research organizations have and are doing would then become illegal


Actually nope, because those organizations are running Linux.

Besides Sony does not prevent you from installing your own OS, they object to you modifying THEIR software, which they have a right to...

If you find a way to install your own OS on the PS3 without messing up with Sony's software at all, you would be in your own right...

By the way while redistributing those CFWS, Geo Hotz is actually redistributing some of Sony's software ( because he didn't rewrite the whole FW from scratch), which last I checked was not legal in the software world........

Sony's firmware isn't a freeware...

If I was on Sony's legal team that is where I would attack because in that area there are some legal precedents preventing an individual or a corporation from redistributing another's corporation software without their consent...



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !