There's I reason I like From software (the devs of Demon's souls and working on Dark souls) they care more about making a good game and thats the reason they are thriving when GH, Bizarre Creations, and so many others are getting shut down despite previously great sales 

How do you define a game being universally good? Is it a technically advanced game? A game with lots of depth? A game some people love a whole lot?

I'd say the best way of defining the "goodness" (quality, if you like) of a game, is to say how many people could potentially like the game, and how much they would like it. Essentially, the bigger the potential love for the game, the better the game.

I don't see any other good way of defining the goodness/quality of a game. Now, the main problem with this definition is that it's ridiculously hard to measure. Measuring the potential love is currently far beyond our capabilities (I hate calling things impossible). What we can do, though, is make an assumption of how loved the game has been by the people who bought it.

We can do that by either looking at two things. How many people played the game, and how much they like it. How much people like the game is hugely subjective and quite hard to measure fairly, but how many people played the game isn't.

If people paid to be able to play the game, they most likely thought they would like it. As they thought they would like it, they generally did.

Essentially, it's like this. We know how many people bought the game. The vast majority of people who bought the game liked it. From that, we can say that a game that sold a lot is a great game, because it's much loved. We don't know how much loved it could potentially be, as we have no way of measuring that (yet). As we don't know how much fun a game that sold little could have brought, we can't say that it's a poor game. We just have no clue how good it really is.

Or in simple terms

A game not selling much doesn't mean it isn't a great game.

A game selling a lot means it's almost always a great game.

Derivating quality from sales isn't a brilliant way of doing, but it's better than all the other methods we have.

I've heard several people on this site say the game was good. Not great but good.

Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicle are kind of great examples of what I said actually. Games with little advertising that if weren't massively hyped by good word of mouth neither of them would have even thought a million was possible

Are you really comparing a game with a massive multi-million dollar marketing budget to that of games whose advertising budgets consisted of magazine and flash ads? :3. You have to keep it in reality somewhat...

I never said 360 had "better" exclusives, just that is has more that I want to play which is why I choose it over the ps3.  Then I saw the sales figures on exclusives and noticed the 360 has more higher selling (5-6 million )exclusives than the ps3, which means it's not just me that wants to play the 360's exclusives over the ps3's, but other gamers too, as the sales numbers indicate.  I believe that is one of the reasons the 360 has outsold the ps3, especially in the US.  I'm surprised at that since last Gen the ps2 smacked everyone around including the xbox.  I think one of the reasons is because ps3 lacks exclusives that appeal to the masses, especially compared to last Gen when they had exclusive rights to games like the GTA series.  If sony wants to comeback and overtake the 360 on sales, it needs more exclusives that lots of people want to play, to the point where it will actually sell new systems, something that can sell 6-10 million, just as Halo and Gears does for the 360.

Thats what anyone who argues sales=quality is doing realize how riddiculas it is now?

Simply because you value your own opinion over others.  I enjoyed Ninja Blade more than God of War 3.  The vast majority of people will think that is ridiculous and I understand.  GOW 3 is a better made game so I will never argue that GOW 3 is worse than Ninja Blade.  Why?  I know my opinion is my opinion and other peoples opinion are equal to mine. I'm not going to think I'm superior to someone because I like less mainstream games that I feel are better made and offer a better experience.  If some tells me Wii Sports is better than the Uncharted series, I will not devalue their opinion.  It's their opinion and gaming is simply a hobby.  I am no better nor is my opinion greater than someone who says Just Dance is better than Gran Tourismo.

??? I don't see your point

Also Demons Souls and Valkyria Chronicles weren't that good. I can easily see Final Fantasy XIII being better.

The problem is, pretty much nobody is stating that sales = quality. People are saying that sales indicate quality.

If you choose to argue against the minority who claim that sales = quality, you will get no sensible discussion. If you'd rather take the discussion of whether sales indicate quality, and to which degree that's true, you'd get a proper discussion, not just two sides stating their opinion at each other.

lol you obviously don't realize that Sony has more exclusive sales then MS does, it's just spread out over more games because it HAS more good exclusives and you specifically said Sony needs more good exclusives and you defined good as selling over 5 million

You haven't played any of them have you